Flaming v ethereal

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**Jayo'r**

Do flaming attacks hurt ethereal units?

**Vendetta 476**

If they are magical, yes.

If not, no.

**Jayo'r**

Do the prayers by priests count as magical?

**Vendetta 476**

I don't know since I don't own a Empire rule book.

Does it say anywhere in the entry that the attacks are magical?

**Platuan4th**

Vendetta 476 wrote:I don't know since I don't own a Empire rule book.

Does it say anywhere in the entry that the attacks are magical?

Are there any Warrior Pries Prayers that are damage causing directly?

If so, they're Bound Spells and thus Magical attacks.

Their buffs/augments wouldn't be unless it said that they granted the unit Magical attacks.

**japehlio**

The flaming attacks it grants the unit are NOT magical, but the S4 hit to everything in base contact IS magical...

**DukeRustfield**

Q: What are ‘magical attacks’? (p68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to
be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically noted
as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are
also considered to be magical attacks, unless their description
specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the
Miscast table are treated as magical attacks.

"Battle Prayers are innate bound spells"

Soulfire is the only ability that causes a direct hit (to b2b models). That would be magic.

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Ah, see I was told that attacks by a unit with say, the banner that makes their attacks flaming also count as magical.
If this is false then I am goign to try the ethreal vamps army i was thinking up.

**Cryonicleech**

It is indeed false.

The banner is magical, but it only grants flaming.

**Vindicare-Obsession**

So in conclusion, flaming =/= magical. Yes?

**Grey Templar**

Correct. Unless the attack is specifically coming from a Magic Item or the Banner says it grants Magical Attacks then it will not give anyone magic attacks.

**HoverBoy**

I believe HE had a flaming magical attacks banner, skaven common warpstone weapons can benefit from the normal banner and still be magical, and a few magical weapons have flaming attacks thus having both.

**Vulcan**

Etherial Vampire lists are very much a one-trick pony. They work great... until your opponent brings a list that is prepared to deal with them. All it really takes is a couple of characters with magic weapons to wreak havoc on Etherials; they aren't exactly durable once you bypass it.

**dajobe**

My grail knights have magical attacks, but other than that my brettonians would generally have a pretty hard time agianst an ethereal list

**Rivet**

I would not recommend building a list around ethereal units, rather bring some but balance their points with other things so if there is little to no magic to harm them, they can run amok but if there is magic, they can distract while your other units hit home.

**HoverBoy**

That and the ethereal list has that one auto loose army matchup.

**Leith**

HPA with warpstone. I watched a game where hex wraiths got eaten by a pair of these. They have no recourse since it I4 and can charge 360.
Chaos Knights are pretty scary too. Fireballs, Lore of Death, Grail Knights. Lots of stuff has magical attacks.
Still I also played a 1000pt tounament where the 2nd place winner had 4 wraith characters in one unit of skeles. Terrifying.

**Grey Templar**

Its one of those lists that either wrecks face or it just gets its own head ripped off and shoved up its bum.

**DukeRustfield**

Lower point games I think are more susceptible to ethereal cuz you're less likely to see magic items. But ethereal is a huge premium on units. Their statline is very weak.

**Davall**

That's why there are ample 5 and 10 point magic weapons

**spyguyyoda**

Davall wrote:That's why there are ample 5 and 10 point magic weapons

which all suck and I would only take if I'm tailoring against ethereal...

**HoverBoy**

Or have 5 spare pts. and wanna be prepared.

**Lazarus426**

HoverBoy wrote:That and the ethereal list has that one auto loose army matchup.

But then, don't we all auto lose against .... dryads?

Seriously though yeah, daemons would F an ethereal list up.

**Davall**

spyguyyoda wrote:
Davall wrote:That's why there are ample 5 and 10 point magic weapons

which all suck and I would only take if I'm tailoring against ethereal...

Really? Warrior bane is OK. Biting Blade is OK. Shrieking blade is OK. Then you start hitting the 15 point magic items and there are some downright useful ones in there. In fact, there are a TON of good magic weapons for 25 points or less. If your list fails from 5 less core troops (or even one for some armies), well...

I would rather be prepared to handle Ethereal with some items that actually are useful all over. Just because those 5-15 points won't win you the game, they can lose it for you. Keep your other characters "cheap" and suddenly you have some points to spread around. Heck, I don't even put defensive gear on my lvl 4's anymore. They get a scroll or a powerstone (or book for VC) and I call it a day.

**HoverBoy**

That's because you get a choice my only lvl 4 is a slaan, is a skink high priest so much to ask for

**Davall**

Yes. You have a Slaan. Be happy in its OP'ness. At least you are not an O&G player with those two lores. Granted, a spell or two in the O&G is good, but overall...

**DukeRustfield**

It's not a 5-10 pt magic item, it's a 5-10 pt magic item + hero.

It's not like you can just buy disembodied magic weapons to fight Ethereals. If you are facing 5 units of Ethereals and you only got 1 hero, you're still going to have trouble. Or multiple heroes and one is killed.

**Davall**

No, it's a 5-10 point item.

Every army runs 1+ characters (realistically 2-6 or even more). They are already there for whatever reason, be it magic, combat, LD, or a re-roll for LD. You don't decide you need a magic weapon, then add yet another character to wield it. Spending 5-10 extra points on a couple of them is a sound idea for the effects, let alone the ethereal defense.

And we are way off target. The OP's question was answered.

**DukeRustfield**

Davall wrote:You don't decide you need a magic weapon, then add yet another character to wield it

Sure you do.

A Lizardman army can be perfectly fine with 1 slann. But with the threat of mass ethereals, you need some magic-spewing combat fighters. Kind of like flaming. It wasn't nearly as prevalent until all the regen mobs came out.

**HoverBoy**

DukeRustfield wrote:It's not a 5-10 pt magic item, it's a 5-10 pt magic item + hero.

It's not like you can just buy disembodied magic weapons to fight Ethereals. If you are facing 5 units of Ethereals and you only got 1 hero, you're still going to have trouble. Or multiple heroes and one is killed.

This is hardly 100% true there are plenty of champions that can take magic items, especially in armies that minimise core usage.