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After seeing the new GW price hike.To me with all of the Companies out their.That right now ,we are probably in the new Golden age of 15mm gaming. It just makes me glad that i made the switch towards the end of 2nd edition.So does anyone else feel the same?I personaly think GW is slowly pricing themselves out of business.

This looks like a thinly disguised GW pricing thread. All I'll say is that people on the internet make too much noise about how much this hobby costs.

Tailgunner wrote:This looks like a thinly disguised GW pricing thread. All I'll say is that people on the internet make too much noise about how much this hobby costs.

SSSSHHHH,Please do not telll anyone that was a secret..Actually with all of the new goodies being released i thought this could be a fun thread...Besides that us 15mm guys need a GW bashing thread.(Sarcasim)

I'd happily play WWII in 6mm, 20mm, or 25/28mm.

No Im not happy...

Oh wait, I play in 6mm and 20mm!

Doh!

What was this thread about again?

I don't notice GW increasing their prices. I only every buy from eBay =) £10 for a Baal Predator including postage FTW!

I like the various 15mm suppliers so I get a good range of options on the products I want to buy, such as Peter Pig and PSC but I can also fall back to Battlefront if needs be. But good point earlier, this was never going to be a cheap hobby. Though some Panzers and a box of infantry from PSC are still cheaper than two squads of Imperial Guardsmen...

My point is that a lot of the wining about prices seems to come from people who don't appreciate the quality of what is available now - not just from GW, but from others - and the high costs involving in providing that quality (especially plastic kits). For all the pissing and moaning about things like paint, it's actually really nice to use (I just bought some of the new GW paints). I do accept, however, that a lot of GW kits are now prohibitively priced. The other point is that a lot of wargamers play different games, and buy models for all of them, so it's not a case of rejoicing because 15mm is cheaper, or whatever. It's always going to cost money - if the models are cheaper then I just buy more of them!

I go out of my way to trade for items I need. All of my FoW models, except the odd one purchased at discount from WS, are items aquired in trade. All of my Night Lords models were trade items.

Either way, my only real expense in this hobby is shipping costs, which I try to keep cheap.

Mat

Ha all my GW minis just increased their potential Ebay resale value.

I picked up a bunch of Peter Pig minis today to complete my Spain in Flames (Spanish Civil War - Flames Of War) force. It's a functional 600 point list with infantry, tanks and artillery. So far I've spent about £30 on it.

Tailgunner wrote:My point is that a lot of the wining about prices seems to come from people who don't appreciate the quality of what is available now - not just from GW, but from others - and the high costs involving in providing that quality (especially plastic kits).

Hmmm, I seem to recall receiving some type of miscast, missing part, or seriously skewed resin body in every 3rd or 4th BF tank I buy ....let's see can I recall having that happen in any of the PSC or even Zvezda tank kits I've bought?.....nope. Or the entire EW French infantry force I had to do in FiB and Peter Pig because the BF French are such 20mm monsters.

Price /=/ "Quality"

ancientsociety wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:My point is that a lot of the wining about prices seems to come from people who don't appreciate the quality of what is available now - not just from GW, but from others - and the high costs involving in providing that quality (especially plastic kits).

Hmmm, I seem to recall receiving some type of miscast, missing part, or seriously skewed resin body in every 3rd or 4th BF tank I buy ....let's see can I recall having that happen in any of the PSC or even Zvezda tank kits I've bought?.....nope. Or the entire EW French infantry force I had to do in FiB and Peter Pig because the BF French are such 20mm monsters.

Price /=/ "Quality"

I have had the same problem, out of the 5 M13/40s I purchased, one had obvious air bubbles in it's turret, and one of its tracks was a whole 4 mm longer than the other. All other BF tanks I have bought have also had a slight difference in the length of the tracks, usually 1-2 mm (I do not understand why this problem even exists with BF, couldn't they just mirror the same mold for each side?)

After receiving my PSC Panzer IVs and Panthers last week, I can say that their quality is outstanding compared to BFs tanks, which required a lot of work to assemble even though they are only 5 pieces.

Price does not equal quality, PSC shows this with their great quality and low price.

I've only bought 3 tanks for my FoW army but the front of one of my tanks is messed up. Fortunately its on a section that is below the front of tank.

Three of the German Half tracks that i got with my BF Grenadiers set is way to thin and on a couple of them have holes from it.Also Btw it not always quality for your price just look at all of the finecast fiascos and Forgeworld warping issues.

I think all of the BF tanks I have bought (too many!) have required allot of time preparing and reparing. Thats both resin and metal components.

Part of the hobby really - it would be enough for your run of the mill 40k internet poster to go ballistic about.

Perversely I have never had a problem with the half dozen Finecast models I have bought.

As for price, no one twists your arm to buy this stuff, why get bent out of shape over it.

notprop wrote:I think all of the BF tanks I have bought (too many!) have required allot of time preparing and reparing. Thats both resin and metal components.

Part of the hobby really - it would be enough for your run of the mill 40k internet poster to go ballistic about.

The beauty of this game is if you don't like what one manufacturer is doing. Just buy from another one.

col. krazy kenny wrote:After seeing the new GW price hike.To me with all of the Companies out their.That right now ,we are probably in the new Golden age of 15mm gaming. It just makes me glad that i made the switch towards the end of 2nd edition.So does anyone else feel the same?I personaly think GW is slowly pricing themselves out of business.

Who cares?

I play Flames of War because I love the historical subject and becauset it is a good game. It has nothing to do with GW in any way, shape or form. I do play *less* 40k nowadays because I play Flames of War more often, but that is because of the merits of Flames of War itself and not the negatives from the GW direction.

Skriker

George Spiggott wrote:

notprop wrote:I think all of the BF tanks I have bought (too many!) have required allot of time preparing and reparing. Thats both resin and metal components.

Part of the hobby really - it would be enough for your run of the mill 40k internet poster to go ballistic about.

The beauty of this game is if you don't like what one manufacturer is doing. Just buy from another one.

True of any game I'd say, but an unavoidable problem if you buy an army (or three!) up front and have to work through dozens of the buggers!

notprop wrote:True of any game I'd say, but an unavoidable problem if you buy an army (or three!) up front and have to work through dozens of the buggers!

More true of some than others. I can buy my minis anywhere and from anyone and still play in a FoW tournament.

Actually when I said 'this game' I probably meant 'this [historical wargaming] hobby'.

Me personally i did not start playing because of the whole Gw thing.I started playing because i was finally burned out on the Sci-fi and Fantasy Genre.i have been collecting and reading Flames of war books about a year before i started playing.My biggest problems was getting my gaming group to switch over.But thankfully i kinda run the reins of our group and also do most of our minatures purchasing too.Psc helped too.

I decided to join the WWII era wargamers because, mainly I wanted to expand my gaming beyond the sci-fi and fantasy aspect of wargaming. Plus I have seen some Flames of War tables at the LGC and with the players painted armies on the board it looked fantastic and wanted to be part of that crowd. Most of my opponants (in WHFB/40K/Malifaux/Hordes) use unpainted models which is fine for new players, but for guys who have had the army for >6 months and still playing with primed models is a bit rediculous IMO. Its basically simply buying into half the hobby, like fishing in a dry canal

Brother Malleus wrote:I decided to join the WWII era wargamers because, mainly I wanted to expand my gaming beyond the sci-fi and fantasy aspect of wargaming. Plus I have seen some Flames of War tables at the LGC and with the players painted armies on the board it looked fantastic and wanted to be part of that crowd. Most of my opponants (in WHFB/40K/Malifaux/Hordes) use unpainted models which is fine for new players, but for guys who have had the army for >6 months and still playing with primed models is a bit rediculous IMO. Its basically simply buying into half the hobby, like fishing in a dry canal

Plenty of reasons for still playing with primed models 6 months later. I have some models in my collection that I've had for 20+ years that are still not fully painted yet, because something else always comes along that I want to paint instead. Of course with my busy schedule these days I usually have to choose to either head out and play something *or* paint minis and I see no point to painting and not playing. I am a good painter, but I've never let the table top dictate my mini painting. So my armies are all a mix of basic primed minis all the way up through fully painted minis and I've been collecting some of my armies for a long time indeed. I've seen plenty of FoW players locally who also don't have as much time to paint. Some of them refuse to use any minis if they aren't painted and others don't mind. My LW british paras will likely stay in their primered state through most if not all of the current league just because my schedule is so nuts. I am lucky to even get in to take part in the league these days...:\

Skriker

At our club, if it aint painted, you dont play with it.

We never have unpainted models, everythings got to be finished before its allowed on the table.

Suits us lot as we were all like that before we formed a club... For us, the whole point of the hobby is the spectacle of painted armies of nice terrain.

Otehrwise, you may as well use counters.

Big P wrote:At our club, if it aint painted, you dont play with it.

We never have unpainted models, everythings got to be finished before its allowed on the table.

Suits us lot as we were all like that before we formed a club... For us, the whole point of the hobby is the spectacle of painted armies of nice terrain.

Otehrwise, you may as well use counters.

my thoughts exactly, I understand time constraints and playing the RL card, it just seems that all the battles I play against where the opponant uses primed mini's are wannabe powergamers. The amount of primed GK's I have faced in recent months is outstanding (Crowe Tax/Draigowing lists bleh) there is only so many times you can play lists like that before getting dis satisfied with the players and to a certain extent the game as well.

Then again I am and always will be a rule of cool gamer, I like the model I lovingly convert/paint said model before taking them to the table. It's how I like my fix. My worst defeat was my favourite game mainly due to the fact that the army was exceedingly well painted.

Brother Malleus wrote:
my thoughts exactly, I understand time constraints and playing the RL card, it just seems that all the battles I play against where the opponant uses primed mini's are wannabe powergamers. The amount of primed GK's I have faced in recent months is outstanding (Crowe Tax/Draigowing lists bleh) there is only so many times you can play lists like that before getting dis satisfied with the players and to a certain extent the game as well.

Then again I am and always will be a rule of cool gamer, I like the model I lovingly convert/paint said model before taking them to the table. It's how I like my fix. My worst defeat was my favourite game mainly due to the fact that the army was exceedingly well painted.

Spoken like someone without kids...

I've been gaming for 16 years, so don't know if I'm a wanna-be gamer. But, my free time is fairly limited between my wife, my son, my family, and other RL obligations. That means I'll probably show up at my local club with just assembled, unprimed models - the horror - until I can get the whole lot primed and painted at once. I wouldn't do it if it was a formal event like a tournie but none of my opponents have balked at the prospect.

ancientsociety wrote:

Spoken like someone without kids...

What have kids to do with it?

I've been gaming 28 years and have a five year old and a one year old.

All the guys in my club are 35+ (apart from one) and all have atleast one and up to four kids.

We play for the spectacle. For us that is painted miniatures on good terrain. Its how we all want to play, none of us like using unpainted stuff so it works fine. We are also lucky to have 8 very committed hobbyists in our club. It is a far more common theme among historical gamers to be fair.

Just call me the Tin Paratrooper....

Well of course, I do have enough unpainted lead to protect me from a two megaton yield warhead, but thats different...

Big P wrote:
What have kids to do with it?

I've been gaming 28 years and have a five year old and a one year old.

All the guys in my club are 35+ (apart from one) and all have atleast one and up to four kids.

We play for the spectacle. For us that is painted miniatures on good terrain. Its how we all want to play, none of us like using unpainted stuff so it works fine. We are also lucky to have 8 very committed hobbyists in our club. It is a far more common theme among historical gamers to be fair.

To be perfectly clear, I was being somewhat sarcastic with that comment

...but I'd rather spend time with my family rather than worrying whether or not my toy soldiers are pretty enough. To each, their own.

Ooooo, you trying to imply I neglect my children?


I guess Im lucky as Im either with my family or gaming... I dont do anything else. I paint once the kids are in bed and its grand.

But feel free to carry on throwing around unfounded assumptions, thats what the interenet is for!