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My thoughts...

SInce theres been quite a habit of dramatic reversals of fortune in the book I think the following things could come about.

*Daenerys has pretty much every city in the East including Yunkai, Qarth and New Ghis moving at her beleagered army in Mereen. Since she has left things are probably even grimmer. It is possible that she could find some way of manipulating the Dothraki into rejoining her cause. Perhaps this might even involve Kal Drogo's prophesised return. Personally I think it is well past time that the Eastern plot-line was wrapped up. If theres only seven books from what I've heard then it kinda needs to happen next book.

*Given that Tyrell and Dorn hate eachother they will end up on opposite factions. Because Danny, technically rebuted, and caused the death of their male heir; they might attempt to marry one of their women (who can still rule under Dornish law) to this new Aegon Targarian. They could also attempt to push the claim of the girl Marcella I think (also under Dornish law) to Casterly Rock. It could be the Tyrells since they have been fracturing but they are still under a marriage alliance. My view is that Aegon may sieze Kings Landing whilst Jamie is away in the Riverlands with the Lannister army and essentially gain vengence by murdering Tommen and his wife. History repeating itself has been a theme of A Song. This could involve Arya as an assasian since Aegon and Varys have connections in the East and she wants (plus deserves) her vengence against Cersei Lannister. That would leave the door open for Tyrell and Lannister to join Daenerys. This would make sense since Tyrion could get a Royal Pardon of Danny and be made heir to Casterly Rock.

*I haven't made my mind up on Petyre Baelish, I want to say that hes going to turn out alright. Petyre got all his holdings from the Lannisters. But, he only has real power over the Vale because he has the young John Arryn as his ward. So if he wanted to press his claim against the Freys 'hard' power in the riverlands he could end up siding with Aegon as well, although the Varys connection makes me skeptical. Or he could just sit this one out in the tower and hope hes last man standing. He really is the wildcard in all this. There is something likable about him despite being a Machiavellian schemer. Does he actually know that Varys is behind Aegon? Wait, wouldn't it be lol worthy if he asked to marry Danny in exchange for the Vale; the man does wish to rise above his station?

*One of the prequel dexcriptions online mentioned the coming of the others and old fueds being put aside. I think Stannis will do well against the Boltons initially but when they ally with him to face the Others they will betray him once their (presumably vanguard) is pushed back the wall. This may result in Stannis being killed. Or it could be that Stannis has a change of heart and gets the Greyjoys on side using Theon and its Theon who betrays him.

Can't wait like.

Totalwar1402 wrote:My thoughts...

Spoiler:

SInce theres been quite a habit of dramatic reversals of fortune in the book I think the following things could come about.

*Daenerys has pretty much every city in the East including Yunkai, Qarth and New Ghis moving at her beleagered army in Mereen. Since she has left things are probably even grimmer. It is possible that she could find some way of manipulating the Dothraki into rejoining her cause. Perhaps this might even involve Kal Drogo's prophesised return. Personally I think it is well past time that the Eastern plot-line was wrapped up. If theres only seven books from what I've heard then it kinda needs to happen next book.

*Given that Tyrell and Dorn hate eachother they will end up on opposite factions. Because Danny, technically rebuted, and caused the death of their male heir; they might attempt to marry one of their women (who can still rule under Dornish law) to this new Aegon Targarian. They could also attempt to push the claim of the girl Marcella I think (also under Dornish law) to Casterly Rock. It could be the Tyrells since they have been fracturing but they are still under a marriage alliance. My view is that Aegon may sieze Kings Landing whilst Jamie is away in the Riverlands with the Lannister army and essentially gain vengence by murdering Tommen and his wife. History repeating itself has been a theme of A Song. This could involve Arya as an assasian since Aegon and Varys have connections in the East and she wants (plus deserves) her vengence against Cersei Lannister. That would leave the door open for Tyrell and Lannister to join Daenerys. This would make sense since Tyrion could get a Royal Pardon of Danny and be made heir to Casterly Rock.

*I haven't made my mind up on Petyre Baelish, I want to say that hes going to turn out alright. Petyre got all his holdings from the Lannisters. But, he only has real power over the Vale because he has the young John Arryn as his ward. So if he wanted to press his claim against the Freys 'hard' power in the riverlands he could end up siding with Aegon as well, although the Varys connection makes me skeptical. Or he could just sit this one out in the tower and hope hes last man standing. He really is the wildcard in all this. There is something likable about him despite being a Machiavellian schemer. Does he actually know that Varys is behind Aegon? Wait, wouldn't it be lol worthy if he asked to marry Danny in exchange for the Vale; the man does wish to rise above his station?

*One of the prequel dexcriptions online mentioned the coming of the others and old fueds being put aside. I think Stannis will do well against the Boltons initially but when they ally with him to face the Others they will betray him once their (presumably vanguard) is pushed back the wall. This may result in Stannis being killed. Or it could be that Stannis has a change of heart and gets the Greyjoys on side using Theon and its Theon who betrays him.

Can't wait like.

TBH, I'am surprised how much stuff gets done plot wise in Storm of Swords but how little the plot appears to advance from there.

Daernarys


Tyrion and company


Jaime Lannister


Jon Snow


Secret Character


Varrys


Petyr Baelish


Bran


Davos


Stannis


Asha


Arya

BTW since I'am in A Song of ice and FIre mood I changed my avatar. Can you tell what that picture is meant to be of? Its a little too white and was a much larger image I got off the wiki. Lovely picture and a sweet part of the book mind you; very endearing.

New rule: when it says "Spoilers" in the title of the thread, there is no need for spoiler tags within.

As far as Daenerys and the Dothraki are concerned, she is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.

Hazardous Harry wrote:As far as Daenerys and the Dothraki are concerned, she is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.

Drogon only has a twenty foot wingspan so he isn't even a Skyrim sized dragon. With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:As far as Daenerys and the Dothraki are concerned, she is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.

Drogon only has a twenty foot wingspan so he isn't even a Skyrim sized dragon. With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?

That would be an interesting interpretation of the Targaryens 'riding' their dragons.

Actually, yeah, isn't her problem partly that she has difficulty controlling them now they are maturing? If they were to link souls then it could work. But she would need other people to link with her other two dragons for that to work. Perhaps the Dothraki widows know the secret of doing this. I think it only works for those who have bonded previously with the animal through friendship or in her case motherhood. Can you control more than one animal at a time?

It makes sense since, how on earth could Aegon have controlled or even ridden a dragon the size of godzilla?

Can you imagine though, all I can compare it to is a princeps linking up to a Imerator Class Titan, you'd have to conted with such a powerful spirit; much stronger than a direwolf. Does doing this alter the character of the people who do it; I know they keep mentioning about Bran losing himself but?

Bromsy wrote:With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.

And think you're underestimating the durability of a dragon, after all these creatures laid waste to Harrenhal, and you can bet that the defenders were shooting them with arrows the whole time. I also think that the pit fighter was nowhere near as close to killing the dragon as you imply.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?

That would be an interesting interpretation of the Targaryens 'riding' their dragons.

Baelerion was big enough to swallow an elephant down his throat whole. The dragons aegon had were like the collossal ones on D&D; if not even more massive. The very fact that the kings of Westeros tried to fight those things is testamont either to their stupidity or ignorance. But GRR Martin isn't going to give Danny the insta-win button so the dragons are going to stay small n vulnerable. By the time they become able to do anything it'll probably be vs the Others and not the Game of Thrones.

I'm not saying Drogon means Danny will have an instant-win. But he is certainly a very powerful tool that might see her at the head of a Dothraki horde.

Hazardous Harry wrote:I'm not saying Drogon means Danny will have an instant-win. But he is certainly a very powerful tool that might see her at the head of a Dothraki horde.

Only if they believe that she is the only one capable of controlling the dragon. Also, each Khalesar is seperate, Drogon spent years ammasing his khalesar and even if he did return he wouldn't have his Khal. The only way Danny can gain the Dothraki is if the Crones at Vaes Dothrak endorse her since they represent the entirity of the Dothraki 'nation'. Given the amount of prophecies it might involve something along the lines of, 'if Danny loses then the Others will destroy all life' or somethingelse to the effect that her cause becomes the Dothraki cause. Otherwise some Khal will simply try to capture and tame Drogo. Even if a Khal wises up to the need for Danny he is honour bound to hand Danny over to the crones as widow of a Khal.

The Dothraki are a pretty superstitious lot, I'm sure they'll buy the idea that the Mother of Dragons is the only one who can tame her children.

They're also full of that boastful manly pride and probably think they can break any beast to their will. Relying on a woman for anything just isn't their style. It took her Khalessar to physically watch her survive walking into the inferno and bring three of them into the world before they would declare that they were 'blood of my blood'.

Plus she swore vengence on the Khal who found her for taking that slave girl (or it may have been one of his leutenants) but that means they're not going to get off to a good start.

I don't want to start a new GOT thread, but speaking of tonights episode, I was really impressed with the battle. OK so the ships exploding was cheesy looking, but overall I think it was done well.

the one thing is I'm not really sure who it was that sliced up Tyrion, its a shame they didn't mess him up more to look like he lost his nose.

but it was an impressive battle.

Daenarys will be able to prove that she is not ordinary woman, and thus the restrictions do not apply to her.

sirlynchmob wrote:I don't want to start a new GOT thread, but speaking of tonights episode, I was really impressed with the battle. OK so the ships exploding was cheesy looking, but overall I think it was done well.

the one thing is I'm not really sure who it was that sliced up Tyrion, its a shame they didn't mess him up more to look like he lost his nose.

but it was an impressive battle.

I thought this episode was great. I have been wondering how they were going to handle a nose-less actor... It would be a stupid use of money to CG the nose out of Peter Dinkledge's face for the rest of however long the show runs! I'd rather see more cool effects, TBH.

Orlanth wrote:Daenarys will be able to prove that she is not ordinary woman, and thus the restrictions do not apply to her.

They only stopped viewing her as an ordinary woman once she got an army and got the dragons. Which you can easily argue aren't the result of her own abilities, indeed she avoided the Dothraki Khals on getting her dragons for this very reason. I'am not saying they won't reach that conclusion eventually, but its going to take time and some new revelations to happen. Also, if Danny opposed the slavery on the coast she can hardly consider the Dothraki culture any differently. So they would pretty much need to believe she was the messiah to follow her.

Personally I think the crones on Vaes Dothrak will teach Danny how to use her dragons and realise the fate of the world rests on her getting her dragons to Westeros; so they call all the Dothraki nation to join her. At that point the slaver cities of Qarth, New Ghis and the others simply can't resist that level of force. At the very least it would force them to pull back behind their walls.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Daenarys will be able to prove that she is not ordinary woman, and thus the restrictions do not apply to her.

They only stopped viewing her as an ordinary woman once she got an army and got the dragons. Which you can easily argue aren't the result of her own abilities, indeed she avoided the Dothraki Khals on getting her dragons for this very reason. I'am not saying they won't reach that conclusion eventually, but its going to take time and some new revelations to happen. Also, if Danny opposed the slavery on the coast she can hardly consider the Dothraki culture any differently. So they would pretty much need to believe she was the messiah to follow her.

Personally I think the crones on Vaes Dothrak will teach Danny how to use her dragons and realise the fate of the world rests on her getting her dragons to Westeros; so they call all the Dothraki nation to join her. At that point the slaver cities of Qarth, New Ghis and the others simply can't resist that level of force. At the very least it would force them to pull back behind their walls.

1. Dany got the dragons because she was special, mother of dragons, unburned etc. Exception can be made right there.

2. Women might not be allowed to lead by tradition, but Dany is the defacto leader of the only military the Dothraki respect by tradition. Dothraki don't mess with Unsullied, Dany has 10k of them. A point could be made for an exception right there.

These aren't instant fixes, but with Dany nothing is, she has been swaying to and fro for four books now. GRRM is taking his timwe with her, I think he sees that for her the journey is more interesting than the destination. After all when she arrives with dragons its a Deus Ex Machina entry, almost irregardless of their size because she has a better claim than anyone else, has enough guards to keep herself alive and people are sick of the usual bickering. Plus Dorne will automatically side with her, so she will have one of the kingdoms guaranteed. The story only really lasts as long as she is not around so Dany is off to the see the ex-Khaliessi for book six and will be cutting through barbarian red tape to allow woman to lead horde.

I thought Dornes allegience was based on her marrying one of the Martells male heirs. Since they're all dead thats no longer so certain. They do have a few women who could try to marry Aegon however. If Aegon is hot-headed n runs into trouble he could well do this rather than consider the consequences of disinhereting Daenerys.

Just because she has a good claim doesn't mean the other houses are going to roll over. I mean a good theme has been that the smallfolk don't care who wins the game of Thrones and aren't 'sowing dragon banners' in their spare time. I doubt Tommen is going to abdicate. Plus if they betrayed House Targarian (although GRR Martin is conspicuouly picking off most of them) like Jamie Lannister she is going to want their heads and so they are compelled to fight her. Plus, some like the Tyrells, Freys, Boltons and arguably Peter Baelish have all of their authority and newly acquired titles resting on patronage gained from the Lannisters n the current King. So again, they will probably fight her since I doubt Danny would view the Freys/Bolton betrayel at the Red Wedding in a positive light and this will force them to resist Danny. Plus, Stannis (another traitor to the Targarians although probably least culpable) believes he is god-annointed to save the world in his own brusk way and is going to have to oppose her as well. Of course, some like Tyrell can always make new deals. Whats left of the Tulleys might rebel to regain what has been dispossesed from them. Whats left of the Stark factions are in with Stannis until an heir is produced either from Sansa, Jon Snow, or Rickon.

Plus, the Martells may be untouched but the Tyrells have the numbers, the Lannisters may be tired but are hardly spent and the Vale remains undecided. As I pointed out with the Dorn vs Tyrells, or with the Greyjoy heirs if Danny sides with one group she will make enemies of the others. As it stands, GRR Martin seems to be making it unclear which factions Danny may end up backing. So I'am not really expecting a Dues Ex entry for Danny. Even Aegon found enough idiots to fight him and his dragons were godzilla size. Basically its a very complicated plot and I doubt its going to end with a Dues Ex entry and everybody being cowed into submission. If anything her list of allies remains frighteningly thin and tenuous. True, the girl is "Dovahkiin", but still I don't think shes going to have an easy time gaining Westeros and convincing everyone she isn't another mad Targarian.

Thats the thing, the journey is interesting for her as a character, but the Eastern world itself has little appeal for me since its too oriental and feels less realistic than Westeros. Plus, the journeys only relevence to the destination is Danny gets more awesome or Dannys in trouble. It really doesn't matter if she leaves the place a mess or not and I'am not really given much reason to care because I only see the world through her perspective n goals.


I just had a thought. I think Peter might try to marry Danny. But do you think he might be the one who betrays for love because he loves Sansa? Or do you think Baelish's resolution is bound to involve Cat?