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2012/05/27 19:22:31
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
This is a practice tournament game. No, I'm not going to a tournament. It is actually my opponent, Kevin (aka Janthkin), who will be going to a tournament (Slaughter in Space) and I will be his "sparring" partner. Kevin is experimenting with an unorthodox IG list. It is essentially an anti-meta IG list, much like what Reece brought one time to a tournament. Bascially, it emphasizes resilient infantry units backed by essentially AV14 tanks. What anchors his list? A deathstar unit of Ogryns buffed up by a Lord Commissar and Straken. Will it work? I guess if he can finish painting it in time, we will see at Slaughter.
And what a test it will be for his unorthodox guards. I believe this is his first time playing it and already, its first test is against my very nasty Wraithwing army. Since the tournament is at 1850, I had to dump the tremorcrons from my wraithwing build that I've been experimenting with recently. Instead, I went with a more traditional (and slightly more balanced) wraithwing build with 4 scoring units (instead of the 3 scoring units in my wraithwing/tremorcron builds) and lance-teks.
This may or may not be his final tournament list. It really depends on if he can finish painting it in time. But I guess we will find out soon enough. The tournament is this weekend.
Now I don't know his exact list so this is an approximation. Kevin, if you're reading this, feel free to either PM me with your list or just post it in this thread directly.
Company Command Squad - Straken, Lascannon
Lord Commissar - Camo Cloaks, Power Fist
10x Ogryns
Platoon Command Squad
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon, Commissar
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon
Veteran Squad - Lascannon
Here, at the end of 5th, is where the fun builds come out.
Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
2012/05/27 21:27:43
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards
Seeing a squad of veterens swoop in in a Vendetta, secure the area, deliver that math assignment, and extract within 2 minutes would be freaking sweet.
2012/05/27 22:03:55
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards
I really can't call this.
List-wise, I can't really see the strength in the Imperial Guard list, so I'd go with the 'crons. However, there's no doubting Janthkin's ability as a player (or yours for that matter), so if he thinks it would work, I can trust him.
Nonetheless, I'm going to stick with the 'crons. I can't see anything that will really do much through the night fight or threaten your command barges until it's too late.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/27 22:35:52
Subject: Re:1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards
Ok after looking at the lists and knowing Janthkin and Jy2 I would give this to necrons.
Here is some things that are uphill battles for necrons imo.
1. Annihilation this will not go well for necrons. Necrons have more KP and IG can blob it up and make their KP harder to get at.
2. Necrons troop choices if come on piecemeal can get eaten up by long range IG fire.
Here are a few things for IG will struggle with imo.
1. Lack of mobility. Since this is not a seize ground mission however I see this as less of a problem.
2. Ogryns are a Deathstar but since commisar is an Independent Character and can be singled out in Close Combat I feel that will be the weakness
vs. a group of wraiths.
3. AV14 vs Overlord with scythes on CCBimo will not go well for the AV14. I am thinking If I were to play IG I would reserve these so they would come out
same time as necron warriors so could have a few firing rounds instead of killed before the two nightfighting turns finish.
definetly interested to see how this goes.
Sisters 1500
2012/05/28 08:24:02
Subject: Re:1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards
Being a necron player, I have to root for Necrons. Not having transports Im not sure what Janth is trying to do, we'll just have to wait for the BR. With a lucky shot, those demolishers might wipe out most of your wraiths, and the CCB will fall to the meltas if he places them properly andf gets off a lucky shot. Im really hoping Janth didnt also take transports....
Chaos daemons 1850
Chaos Marines 1850
2250+
2500++ (Wraithwing)
I moved so starting from scratch. These were the armies I had, rebuilding my Chaos.
2012/05/28 08:44:02
Subject: Re:1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards
Necrons: To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of Kevin's army. It's such an odd list that it may actually do alright. I'm assuming he's going to attach his Lord Commissar to his Ogryns to give them 3+ cover. Then he's going to combine his infantry squads and use them to screen out his ogryns (as well as to give them that 3+ cover). Due to his commissar, I most likely won't kill off his blob squad in just 1 turn of combat even if I assaulted them with all 3 units of wraiths. And if I do assault his blob squad, he is just waiting to furiously counter-charge me with his Straken-buffed Ogryn deathstar.
His demolishers are somewhat scary, at least to my wraiths, though manticores would have been even more scary. Alas, he is taking demolishers due to their AV14 armor and they are a threat that my command barges will go after. I'm not really too concerned with his colossus. I'm actually more concerned about his hellhound (but only a little) though I can easily handle it if I had to.
I think in a objectives game, I can use my superior mobility to beat my opponent. However, he has a decent chance this game because we are playing annihilation. His blobbed-up army (and he will blob up) only has 9KP's to my 13. More importantly, he doesn't have to come towards me (or any objectives). My mobility advantage is neutered somewhat in annihilation. All he really has to do is setup for a counter-assault when I do hit his lines. With counter-attack and furious charge thanks to Straken, his assault/counter-assault will actually hurt. I need to hit him with my units all at once in order to overcome them. Otherwise, if I assault him piecemeal, I will most likely lose.
Imperial Guards: Blob-squad guards and ogryns are deceptively resilient. Coupled with Straken's buffs, they actually become quite dangerous. Fortunately for me, I've played against both Straken and blob squads before. And while I haven't played against an Ogryn deathstar before, I've played against Dark Eldar Grotesques, which I find strikingly similar to ogryns. What my opponent has to watch out for is to not let his units get charged by all 3 of my wraiths at once. Letting me do so won't end up well for his units, ogryns or blob squad.
He also needs to watch out for my command barge's threat range. This actually presents an interesting dilemma to his tanks. Due to night-fight, he may have to move up to be able to see my units. Doing so will expose him to my barge's sweep attacks. However, if he doesn't advance, then he may lose 1 turn of shooting. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with this.
I don't think he will be too concerned about my shooting. His army is designed to be somewhat resilient against normal shooty armies. My shooting is below-average compared to some of the other armies out there (ironically, so is his army). Then again, I'm not too concerned about his shooting either, though I do need to watch out for ripper guns and FRF!SRF! when my wraiths are closing in.
Overall, I think this will be an interesting battle. I think I have the advantage with better assault and movement overall. I've also got the experience advantage as this is Kevin's first game with his ogryn IG build. However, my opponent is a cunning, crafty opponent who has beaten me before in games where I thought I should have won, so I can't take his inexperience too lightly.
Not much movement. Hellhound moves back to get out of my command barges threat range. His platoon command squad (far right) moves forwards.
One demolisher spots my right 5-man wraiths (about 24" away) and then both demolishers fire at them, insta-killing 2.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
I throw caution in the wind and sweep his blob squad with my right command barge. I get lucky and roll a to hit, killing off his commissar.
That was big. His invulnerable blob squad is now vulnerable.
The rest of my crons move.
More necron movement.
Shooting kills a total of 4 guardsmen only.
Right wraiths (now a 3-man unit) barely make it into assault with his PCS (platoon command squad).
I kill all but 1 but fortunately for my opponent, he passes morale.
Imperial Guards 2
Spoiler:
IG movement. Demolishers move back. Blob squad prepares to go after my wraiths in combat.
Another perspective of his movement. Ogryns spread out.
His colossus drops a large pie plate on my warriors and wipes out 3 (by the ways, I made it Night-fight both this turn and last).
One of his demolishers wreck my right command barge with a lascannon. The other demolisher pens my left command barge (again, with a lascannon) and only immobilizes it (upgraded from a weapon destroyed), which I transfer via Symbiotic Repair into 1W on my Overlord.
BTW, we played it that Symbiotic Repair takes precedence over getting wrecked while moving flat-out, just fyi.
IG: 1, Necrons: 0
Blob squad then makes the furious multi-assault (S4) against both my wraiths and Overlord. Ogryns furiously charge (S6) my command barge.
Blob squad kills 2 wraiths and puts 2W on my Overlord, though I do kill enough guardsmen to send his lone PCS fleeing.
Despite a ton of S6 attacks, his ogryns fail to damage my last command barge.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
My command barge moves flat-out and sweeps his right demolisher, wrecking it in the process.
IG: 1, Necrons: 1
Wraiths get ready to launch their offensive. Hmmm. So many targets....who should I assault?
More necron movement.
Command barges fire at his ogryns. He goes-to-ground for 2+ cover. I thought he made a mistake by doing so, because now I can just ignore his ogryns.
So instead, I turn my left wraiths onto his hellhound. They fail to do anything to it with 20 S6 attacks. I guess that's not quite as bad as his ogryns failing to do anything to my command barge with 40 S6 attacks last turn (though against rear AV11).
Middle wraiths assault his blob squad.
I kill a bunch of guardsmen. He kills my Overlord and the solo right wraith.
I then catch and destroy them in a sweeping advance. Unfortunately, my Overlord doesn't get back up.
IG: 3, Necrons: 2
Imperial Guards 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
His lone PCS flees off the board.
IG: 3, Necrons: 3
Hellhound tankshocks forwards 12". He could have moved it 18".
His demolisher then winds up for a shot at my nicely-clumped-up wraiths. Fortunately for me, it lands way off target.
His collosus takes down 3 warriors.
Remember how I thought my opponent made a mistake by having his ogryns go-to-ground last turn? This is why my opponent is such a crafty general indeed. Straken orders his ogryns to Get-Back-in-the-Fight! and they unpin themselves. They then shoot and put 3W on my wraiths.
Finally, both ogryns and Straken's unit both combo-charge my wraiths.
It is just too many attacks and they almost wipe out my entire wraith unit. I do manage to kill off all of Straken's veterans, though I am left with just 1 wraith with 1W remaining.
And because of that 1 wraith, my opponent's units will be protected from my shooting next turn.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
My command barge sweeps his other demolisher. I only manage to immobilize it. My Overlord then disembards for what should be an easy kill.
Necron movement.
Now I am forced with a difficult choice to make. I can either go for the glory and assault my left wraiths into the ogryn melee....or I can go for the chicken-sh*t win and try to take out the rest of his army - hellhound, veterans and collosus.
Hmmmm.....bock, bock, begowwwwk!
Shooting doesn't do much as all my lances fail.
Onto assault.
I auto-hit and only need a 5 to pen on 2D6. I then get only 1 glance and 1 pen out of 4 attacks. Doh!!!
Wraith has just been turned into ground metal.
IG: 4, Necrons: 3
Imperial Guards 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
Uh oh. Ogryns go after my Overlord and command barge.
Straken orders his veterans to FRF!SRF! and they put 1W on my wraiths.
Ogryns then shoot down my Overlord with their ripper guns.
He would not get back up.
IG: 5, Necrons: 3
I believe it is his immobilized demolisher who weapon destroys my command barge....with its lascannon!
The monstrous Straken then tries to take down my command barge....unsuccessfully.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Necron movement. Annihilation barges get ready to blast some ogryns.
Here is my plan. Since Straken is all by his lonesome, I am going to snipe him down with my lance-teks. Problem is, maybe only 1 or 2 will have LOS to him this turn.
Wraiths will have a choice of targets. Heck, maybe I can even make it into assault with both the vehicle and veterans.
By the ways, I forgot, but last turn my lance-tek blew up his hellhound (I was wondering where I got the 1W on my wraiths, which came as a result of the explosion).
IG: 5, Necrons: 4
Only 1 lance-tek sees Straken but fails to hit.
Annihilation barges put a few wounds on the ogryns. I believe they kill 1 model.
Then it's off to assault. Wraiths fail to multi-charge the veterans by about a quarter-inch.
The collosus moved last turn, so wraiths only manage to immobilize it and take off its main gun. It's still got its heavy bolter though.
Imperial Guards 5
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 5.
Veterans, Straken and ogryns go after my wraiths.
FRF!SRF! by veterans followed by ogryn ripper guns wipe out 3 wraiths. Thank goodness his ogryns are out of assault range.
Straken takes 1W to an overheating plasma pistol. BTW, this was his 3rd or 4th overheat in a row (but 1st wound from it).
Finally, because my wraiths are still in base contact with his collosus in the Assault phase, I get to attack it. As it is immobilized, I manage to blow it up.
IG: 5, Necrons: 5
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
This may be the last turn. My annihilation barges go after his ogryns out in the open.
Lance-teks are still trying to snipe Straken, but I have the problem of visibility. Command barge moves out of LOS.
What the heck. If my wraiths are going down, they are going to take the vets with them.
Barges take out 1 ogryn and spreads a few wounds among them.
All my lance-teks fail to take out Straken.
So there is nothing left but combat.
As expected, I wipe out his veterans.
IG: 5, Necrons: 6
My opponent needs 1 more turn or he loses. We roll to see if the game ends and he gets his wish. Game on!
Imperial Guards 6
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 6.
I have a bad feeling....
One wraith manages to survive his shooting....
....but not his assault. I do manage to take down 1 ogryn before becoming scrap metal.
IG: 6, Necrons: 6
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
Can I take down Straken?
I fire all my lances at him...and he still stands!!! WTF! 3 turns of firing lances at him and I still can't take him down!
Never send a lance-tek to do an annihilation barge's job. Where my lances fail, my twin-linked tesla destructors succeeds and Straken is no more.
IG: 6, Necrons: 7
Game ends.
Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/05/29 06:17:13
Skip wrote:Can Straken call "get back in the fight" when he is also pinned?
Great batrep BTW
I think straken was with the command squad, there's a lord commisar in there with the orgyns I believe. (at least that's what I think the Yarrick Model was for)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/29 10:17:00
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/05/29 10:33:12
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Great bat rep as ever jy2, I've said it before and I'll say it again, you write the best bat-reps on Dakka IMHO.
Considering how close it was, despite you taking out the Commisar early on, how do you think it would've been different if you hadn't, so the Blob squad was really still in the fight?
Great report, unlike the Necrons - which seems like a really solid list - I'm still not sold on the IG list...
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/29 11:33:52
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Death will come at the hands of the ancients, those who determined our fate aeons before we stood erect upon the holy ground of terra and gazed up into the starry night.
1500 pts
2000pts (Knights of blood)
2012/05/29 12:34:26
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Really good game! I like it when unusual lists (ie, an Ogryn horde) are fielded, and like it even more when they do well! Props to Janthkin, by the way, for fielding the classic Lord Solar Macharius model as Straken.
This was a hilarious game, and a hilarious list. It's not a terribly effective list, but it was a lot of fun to play with it.
As a result of my single play-test game with jy2, I made a couple tweaks for the Slaughter in Space:
Straken + Standard command squad
Lord Commissar w/camo cloak & power fist
Ministorum Priest(!)
10 Ogryn
PCS w/lascannon
2x squads w/meltagun, PW, & Commissar w/PW (it would take two lucky shots to kill my Commissars now!)
2x squads w/meltagun & PW
Vet squad w/lascannon & 3x plasma
2x Demolisher w/plasma & lascannon
Colossus
I ended up going 1-2-3, and having a ton of fun with it. People just don't expect to be charged by Guardsmen, much less effectively charged by them. The blob has a tendency to eventually die off to attrition, though; the lack of significant shooting makes clearing far-away objectives or sniping long-range KPs difficult (ordnance fire is just too variable); and the lack of mobility is a serious handicap for capture-and-control missions. But I'm glad I got to play around with it, and it'll probably be what I use for the rest of 5e.
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
2012/05/29 16:00:25
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
How did the Ogryns get a 2+ cover save by going to ground? AFAIK the only way to do that without the CL's camo cloak (since he was already dead) is to order Incoming!, but that wasn't done.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2012/05/29 16:13:08
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Avatar 720 wrote:How did the Ogryns get a 2+ cover save by going to ground? AFAIK the only way to do that without the CL's camo cloak (since he was already dead) is to order Incoming!, but that wasn't done.
Some confusion there. The Commissar in the blob squad was dead (from a Barge sweep attack); the Lord Commissar was just fine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/29 16:13:22
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
2012/05/29 18:00:02
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Ah, fair enough, didn't see the second commissar in the list posted up.
Continue
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2012/05/30 01:21:57
Subject: 1850 Tournament Practice - Wraithwing vs Janthkin's Ogryn Imperial Guards (Completed)
Janthkin wrote:This was a hilarious game, and a hilarious list. It's not a terribly effective list, but it was a lot of fun to play with it.
As a result of my single play-test game with jy2, I made a couple tweaks for the Slaughter in Space:
Straken + Standard command squad
Lord Commissar w/camo cloak & power fist
Ministorum Priest(!)
10 Ogryn
PCS w/lascannon
2x squads w/meltagun, PW, & Commissar w/PW (it would take two lucky shots to kill my Commissars now!)
2x squads w/meltagun & PW
Vet squad w/lascannon & 3x plasma
2x Demolisher w/plasma & lascannon
Colossus
I ended up going 1-2-3, and having a ton of fun with it. People just don't expect to be charged by Guardsmen, much less effectively charged by them. The blob has a tendency to eventually die off to attrition, though; the lack of significant shooting makes clearing far-away objectives or sniping long-range KPs difficult (ordnance fire is just too variable); and the lack of mobility is a serious handicap for capture-and-control missions. But I'm glad I got to play around with it, and it'll probably be what I use for the rest of 5e.
Thanks for the game, Kevin. While the list isn't very balanced at all (then again, neither is my wraithwing), I can see this list achieving a modicum of success simply by the fact that it will throw most people off and even surprise some. But the main thing is that - win, lose or draw - you had fun with it and that's all that matters.
whitespirit wrote:Ok after looking at the lists and knowing Janthkin and Jy2 I would give this to necrons.
Here is some things that are uphill battles for necrons imo.
1. Annihilation this will not go well for necrons. Necrons have more KP and IG can blob it up and make their KP harder to get at.
2. Necrons troop choices if come on piecemeal can get eaten up by long range IG fire.
Here are a few things for IG will struggle with imo.
1. Lack of mobility. Since this is not a seize ground mission however I see this as less of a problem.
2. Ogryns are a Deathstar but since commisar is an Independent Character and can be singled out in Close Combat I feel that will be the weakness
vs. a group of wraiths.
3. AV14 vs Overlord with scythes on CCBimo will not go well for the AV14. I am thinking If I were to play IG I would reserve these so they would come out
same time as necron warriors so could have a few firing rounds instead of killed before the two nightfighting turns finish.
definetly interested to see how this goes.
Very good analysis. Here is my analysis:
1. Agreed.
2. Only the colossus (and hellhound) can really hurt my troops. I'm not at all concerned. With proper spacing, colossus will only be able to take out 3 warriors at a time (assuming it hits dead-on), of which on average 1 would get back up (so only 2 dead per turn of shooting). Hellhound would be dealt with before it can get close enough to become an actual threat to my troops. Hence, why I did not need to reserve my troops. I'd rather have my opponent waste his fire on them than on my wraiths.
1. Agreed.
2. True, but a savvy opponent can keep him alive much longer by having him trailing in the back. So on 1st turn of assault, he will not be able to fight. Then hopefully on Turn 2 of assault, my wraiths will be weakened substantially enough from all the S5/6 attacks that the ogryns put out so that his Lord Commissar may survive. But yeah, I will try to get into combat with his commissar if I am able to.
3. My CCB's will get to his tanks eventually. I feel it is better to leave them on the floor to contribute to the offense from Turn 1. If they die, then they die. They are not precious enough that they must survive.
Skip wrote:Can Straken call "get back in the fight" when he is also pinned?
Great batrep BTW
Straken was never pinned. He is with a different unit (his company command squad) than the gone-to-ground ogryns.
Just Dave wrote:Great bat rep as ever jy2, I've said it before and I'll say it again, you write the best bat-reps on Dakka IMHO.
Considering how close it was, despite you taking out the Commisar early on, how do you think it would've been different if you hadn't, so the Blob squad was really still in the fight?
Great report, unlike the Necrons - which seems like a really solid list - I'm still not sold on the IG list...
Thanks!
If I hadn't taken out his commissar on Turn 1, things could have definitely been much different. I'd definitely have been much more weary of assaulting his units. Who knows, that might have been the game-changer right there on Turn 1 with me taking out his commissar.
Yeah, the IG list isn't balanced at all. It's more of a "fun" list that can take an opponent by surprise. I'd play it for fun, but if I seriously wanted to win a tournament, I'd definitely bring a different list.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Chaos daemons 1850
2250+
to hit, killing off his commissar.
I guess that's not quite as bad as his ogryns failing to do anything to my command barge with 40 S6 attacks last turn (though against rear AV11).
3 turns of firing lances at him and I still can't take him down!
