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Hey, I've been wanting to make a pre-heresy army based on FW's line of models. However, some of their prices are insane (over $1 per BOLTGUN). I thought about casting small parts that I may need (boltguns, smoke launchers, ect...) for personal use, but I found on the GW legal page that they have a strict policy on casting and even personal use only doesn't exempt me. So what are the risks with casting, can they be easily identified even if painted? what will happen to me if found out?

Note: I have not cast anything yet

Casting other people's Intellectual Property is illegal, and Dakka does not support it.

If you're wanting us to pat your head and say that it's okay to break the law, I think you should probably keep going.

Probably nothing if they're finely cast.

Worst case scenario, too many people do it and forgeworld closes it's doors.

And Bad Santa gets you.

There is nothing at all illegal about copying the work of another 'for personal use only'. The minute you try to sell or even give away something you've copied, you then cross over into illegality.

helium42 wrote:There is nothing at all illegal about copying the work of another 'for personal use only'. The minute you try to sell or even give away something you've copied, you then cross over into illegality.

This is complete and utter bollocks! It is illegal to make any copies of miniatures (or anything else for that matter), doesn't matter what use you give them.

But I have a feeling that the OP already knew this and was just looking for a "moral" pat on the head.

It can be legal to make copies of something for personal use IF the owner grants such permission. Like RPG publishers traditionally do with character sheets in their rulebooks, for example.

Manny, don't you usually lock these threads as they're against what Dakka stands for? And casting has two parts-if you make your own custom bit, cast away-you can make a million casts and sell them. If you cast the models that somebody else built, you're breaking laws and can get in trouble. Make your own gun, then cast it up.

The big answer = depends if you get caught.

http://www.mywargame.com/2009/12/13/creating-pre-heresy-weapons-mk-1-bolter/

Make your own, and then DON'T DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

I agree that 10 pounds for 10 bolters is ridiculous.

EDIT: Beaten to it!

timetowaste85 wrote:Manny, don't you usually lock these threads as they're against what Dakka stands for? And casting has two parts-if you make your own custom bit, cast away-you can make a million casts and sell them. If you cast the models that somebody else built, you're breaking laws and can get in trouble. Make your own gun, then cast it up.

It's borderline. We lock or delete it if the person's advocating it or showing pictures of doing it illegally. If a person's asking a question about casting, the discussion about the subject in general can be appropriate and legitimate.

helium42 wrote:There is nothing at all illegal about copying the work of another 'for personal use only'. The minute you try to sell or even give away something you've copied, you then cross over into illegality.

Ignore this poster.

It's considered stealing. And you shouldn't steal, GW hates competition.

Great White wrote:It's considered stealing. And you shouldn't steal, GW hates competition.

Yup. Legally, it's been stated several times that it's not ok.

Morally, however, YMMV.

Destrado wrote:Probably nothing if they're finely cast.

Worst case scenario, too many people do it and forgeworld closes it's doors.

And Bad Santa gets you.

One cheeky bastard, mate

helium42 wrote:There is nothing at all illegal about copying the work of another 'for personal use only'. The minute you try to sell or even give away something you've copied, you then cross over into illegality.

'Personal use' and 'Fair use' have very narrow legal definitions. Buying a copyrighted mini, then duplicating it because you want 20 copies is not fair use or personal use.

An example of 'fair use' is to take a mini and make 10 copies in order to test paint techniques and schemes, and once you decide what scheme you wish to use, paint the original and destroy the copies. That is personal use.

Buying FW and recasting it over and over to troopbuild is not legal and not 'personal/fair use' in any of the major countries in question. (US/Euro/Aus)

Look, not everyone here is a neckbeard, some of us need money for other things and have actual rent to pay. So to OP, I say go ahead and do it, but ONLY for personal use.

So ignore the anti recast crusaders and go for it; its not like they're coming to your house and kill you cause they can't leave their mother's basement

KhornePysker wrote:Look, not everyone here is a neckbeard, some of us need money for other things and have actual rent to pay.

Its a good thing the folks at Forgeworld don't have to worry about rent.

KhornePsyker wrote:Look, not everyone here is a neckbeard, some of us need money for other things and have actual rent to pay.

Your financial situation does not give you an exception to break the law.

This is a thinner line than most are willing to admit.

So he'd technically be allowed to make a similar weapon and replicate it, but he can't buy 10 weapons, and make 20 copies of them, all the while spending 10x that in Marines, probably Tanks, paints, etc.

I've seen people recasting Blasters, if I'm not wrong, on this very forum. Isn't it the same logic?

Or maybe we should buy a box of Kabalite Warriors every time we want one...

Just my two cents.

Ghaz wrote:

KhornePsyker wrote:Look, not everyone here is a neckbeard, some of us need money for other things and have actual rent to pay.

Your financial situation does not give you an exception to break the law.

No, you see, it's totally ok if you're not the specific kind of nerd that KhornePsyker imagines he isn't.

plastictrees wrote:No, you see, it's totally ok if you're not the specific kind of nerd that KhornePsyker imagines he isn't.

And insulting him proves you're cool, and your point. Bravo.

Destrado, where do you stand on this thread. Allow or not allow casting.

Destrado wrote:
Or maybe we should buy a box of Kabalite Warriors every time we want one...

Just my two cents.

Or you can make your own that are custom weapons that look similar and fills 'counts as'

Or find an alternative mini that someone has sculpted and is selling that fits 'counts as'

Or buy bitz on ebay as there are numerous bitz outfitters which prevent you from needing to buy an entire box.

Or if it really bugs you, 'proxy' things and get your like-minded friends who you play with to allow you to proxy.

Or buy a whole box, it is a valid and legal alternative to breaking the law.

Lots of options. Take your pick.

It's illegal. If you don't have the money to buy originals, don't do it. Playing a pre-heresy marine army (or any army) is not a necessity of life. You do not have the right to do it.

Great White wrote:Destrado, where do you stand on this thread. Allow or not allow casting.

Not really sure. I don't like "illegal" - because it's amoral, and not because it's a bad word - but I also think that making his own and copying it isn't all that different from buying a pack of ten to make copies... At least he gave them money. I mean, people haven't protested against people who copy Blasters, or shoulder pads, that I've seen. In many cases individuals were actually lauded for it. Will we have to buy Forge-World approved combi-weapons?

As for the other off-topics... I think this thread raises some interesting questions that can lead to healthy discussion. I wouldn't mind going out of this discussion proven wrong.

Destrado wrote:This is a thinner line than most are willing to admit.

I think the line is more between legality and morality.
It is illegal to make copies of the models or more specifically the parts.
However, for whatever reason, people may find it moral or immoral.
No matter how you view things, it is illegal. Despite this you may choose to cast someone's models and it is up to you to make the call whether the risk is worth it.
Note: Although it may appear that I am advocating law-breaking, I do not support the notion of what is essentially stealing. Miniatures companies can charge whatever they want, if you want to buy the models that's YOUR choice, nobody is making you play the game. I may be quitting 40k due to pricing, myself.

People feel really strongly on this...

I'm firmly of the opinion for myself that if a model/part is extremely unavailable / long since out of production and very difficult to find, then I have no problem with someone casting it. Again, that's my personal opinion.

But if it is available to buy, either first-hand from the company or through a reasonable amount of effort on the second-hand market, I'll pay whatever is needed if I really want it.

The OP's situation would fall in that second category- it's readily available, but expensive, so I would not personally feel right having it cast.

However, I've been desperately searching for multiples of a really old model/kit before, and been lucky to find one. In that case, I personally have no problem with casting.

I understand that that expands the argument, but I figured it was worth articulating my personal "line" in this case.

If you're looking for it to be legitimised then it won't be. Recasting is almost always illegal however you cut it. Some activities are more illegal than others and likely to draw attention. Like trying to sell your recasts on eBay.

But if you are casting up a few bolters for your own use then it's up to your own conscience. Military modellers sometimes recast wheels from tanks and stuff and you don't have a swarm of people getting their pants in a wad over it. Even if it is a 'historical kit' you are still recasting someone's sculpt of it.

Personally I don't have an issue with then idea of recasting bits and pieces for conversion work (eg, bolters) or even of recasting OOP stuff that GW simply won't be selling any more. (They aren't going to be offering Squats any time soon.)

For example, I have bought a lot of the original metal RT Space Marines but none of them have backpacks. As is often the case, small parts are easily lost over a period of 20 years. So what can I do? These old metal backpacks are very hard to find, they only appear in tiny numbers and usually come with another Marine if on eBay, GW ceased making them or even offering them for sale over 20 years ago and I need about 50 of them. So seriously, what should I do other than recast the very few that I have? Technically what I intend to do is illegal, but COME ON be reasonable about it.

Sure, you can get away with recasting, and hell, you'd probably be saving a lot of money. The morality of the issue is subjective, and hardly even factors into it, IMHO.

However, remember that this game is a luxury, and not a necessity. You're running a risk if you do it, and should you get caught you'll have to deal with the consequences.

It's not "your right" to do it, but you certainly have the ability to do it. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences.