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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 08:46:59
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Been Around the Block
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First, here's the list breakdown
HQ:
Commander, TL Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator
Elites:
3 XV8: TL Plasma Rifle, Targetting Array, (1) Leader + Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones
3 XV8: TL Missile Pod, Targetting Array, (1) Leader + Drone Controller, 1 Gun Drone 1 Shield Drone
3 XV8: TL Missile Pod, Targetting Array, (1) Leader + Drone Controller, 1 Gun Drone 1 Shield Drone
Troops:
6 Fire Warriors
6 Fire Warriors + Devilfish: Disruption Pod, SMS, Targetting Array, Multi Tracker
Fast Attack:
4 Pathfinder + Devilfish: Disruption Pod, SMS, Targetting Array, Multi Tracker
Heavy Support:
Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun, Disruption Pod, SMS
1 XV88 Team Leader, SMS, Targetting Array, Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones
1 XV88 Team Leader, SMS, Targetting Array, Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones
Now the motivations:
HQ: this is a one shot character. 88 Points for a deep striking BS4 TL Meltagun. It DOES HIT. Period. And with a 3+/4++ he deserves some chances to survive and downing another veichle. The choice could seem redundant with the railguns, but it's finalized to take out Artillery Platforms in BLOS, or target out of our Railgun LOS.
XV8 Plasma Rifle: they are heavy infantry bane. They could take out Terminators with some ease, and so any other kind of infantry. They will be in LOS of enemies more often then their brothers, so they well deserve the 2 Shield Drones.
XV8 Missile Pod: they will JSJ in and out BLOS, destroying transports and hammering light infantry. Combining fire, they can seriously wound some medium infantry units, and are hard as hell to take out due of BLOS and 2 drones.
Pathfinders: they usually won't use their Devilfish (leaving it to the other FW squad). Great to help taking out THE target we cannot endure (because of 2 Markerlights, usually). I don't love them, but they are often necessary.
Devilfishes: SMS + Disruption Pod + Multi Tracker + Targetting Array = 12" moving transports, with good fire capabilities, help hammering down some infantry units. Shame on the VP5 of the SMS (they really deserved VP4!), but they let us be mobile and help with some fireing while keeping us on BLOS or, at least, in cover!
Hammerhead: I know, XV88 is better at doing AT job. BUT here we have an AV13 4++ veichle, capable of shooting pies on the infantry squads.
XV88 "single squads": every squad has good chances of hit, and so to break or immoblize veichles. Especially Necron and DE ones! 2 Shield Drones offer us 2+/4++ saves, so they are usually safe against shooting, even Lascannons.
Summary: 6 TL(Bs4) Missile Pods, 3 TL(Bs4) Plasma Rifles, 2(Bs4) SMS, 2(TL)+1(Bs4) Railguns, 1TL(Bs4) Fusion Blaster.
I'd like to receive some help to improve this list, but I would like to avoid things like "Take Kroots", "Take Moar Kroots", "Take Moar X". Motivate your ideas and how would they make this list better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 09:47:03
Subject: Re:Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
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If you're using drones, you need to bond your suits. Especially the broadsides. You don't want to lose two drones, then have your XV88s run off the field. Same for the XV8s, lose the drones and a suit, they're below 50% and if they fail they're morale check, they're running 3D6" per turn. I also use a suicide commander, but I give him a PR instead of the Shield, I find he dies all the time even with the Shield, and the extra S6 shot on rear armor can come in handy. Without a Target lock/Multi-Tracker on the HH, the SMS is a waste, IMO. I'm not a huge fan of them on vehicles in general, but YMMV. You might be a little high on the TLMP squads, for 5 points more for the squad you can get PR/BC/MT, which kills MEQs and GEQs (not to mention TEQs) more efficiently. TLMP is really for knocking out light vehicles and transports, which you shouldn't have a problem with. See if there is any way for you to get more markerlights, they are one of the Tau's greatest assets. Over-all it's fairly good, but bonding is going to be a necessity for your suits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 10:10:29
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Been Around the Block
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Thanks for the feedback, i forgotten SMS on RailHead from my previous idea, and I agree it's a total waste of points. I'll add Bonding Knife to the PlasmaRifle Squad, for sure. I totally dislike BC/PR, I'm not sold on a 18" weapon. SMS and MP are just enough for troops that need "stupid fire". TL MP are there to de-mech some list, and I'm not convinced to be high on this. Railgun are for AV13+, so transport killing is addressed to the 2 squads of TL MP. I'd like to kill them on the first turn, and then hammer light-fast vehicles and infantry with them. S7 is still good, doesn't it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 10:37:16
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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HQ: this is a one shot character. 88 Points for a deep striking BS4 TL Meltagun. It DOES HIT. Period. And with a 3+/4++ he deserves some chances to survive and downing another veichle. The choice could seem redundant with the railguns, but it's finalized to take out Artillery Platforms in BLOS, or target out of our Railgun LOS.
Yeah he'll hit most of the time (8 times out of 9) but has less than a 40% chance of wrecking a vehicle and is out of the game the next turn.
XV8 Plasma Rifle: they are heavy infantry bane. They could take out Terminators with some ease, and so any other kind of infantry. They will be in LOS of enemies more often then their brothers, so they well deserve the 2 Shield Drones.
In rapidfire range against Terminators you have 6 shots you'll cause less than 5 wounds and that's less than 1.5 dead Terminators on Average. even if you get 2 turn of shooting the at least 2 Terminators that reach you will still wipe the squad.
I'd sqap the SMS on the Hammerhead for Burstcannons, you get more shots for less points and that means you can get it a multi-tracker which is essential.
For Tau you don't have a huge amount of anti-tank. 3 Railguns at 1500 is a little light (I personally wouldn't go to battle with less than 4 at this point level).
I don't see what your plan is if you come up against a turn 1 assault army without a kroot shield? And without Piranha's I don't see how you could hope to stop even a slow turn 2 assaulting army.
You've a good amount of suits which is great. But you've spent too much on making them hit when just getting more firepower would help your army more (and perhaps a 2nd Pathfinder squad for just another 48 points).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 18:03:47
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Is this 1500?
The Command suit isn't a bad idea. Players on forums dont give enough credit to the simple truth that "suicide suits" can really only be hit by a few units (the obscuring hulk of the dead enemy tank coupled with the normal terrain often causes this to be true). Those units that can see the commander must view him as a bigger priority than, say, the Broadsides or other targets and be willing to go BACKwards in order to go get him in some cases and no guarantee that they will reach him nor kill him. So the Command suit setup isn't bad. It's also stripped down so that losing it isn't a big deal anyways (more for the enemy to consider). So I think that part is fine.
One unit of Missile Pod Crisis suits, fine. But I think the second unit of Missile pod Crisis suits is not such a good thing. I would MUCH rather see TL plasma on them as well. The railguns and one missile pod suit as well as the melta commander seems like enough anti-tank if you deploy accordingly. I think you're going to need much more in the way of anti 2+ armor and such when the Deathwing, DraigoWing and so on come to town.
2 Troop choices is real bad policy. On it's own, that is an enormous disadvantage. if you take that few, you may need to take the 60 points from the Devilfish's in upgrades and make the Fire Warrior units bigger (or just add a 3rd unit) so they have a chance to survive. Their range and ability to rapidfire will make up (in the end) for what you lose on the Devilfish's.
So i guess my advice comes down to this:
FW's bigger or add another unit by stripping down the Devilfish's and;
Change the second Missile Pod suit unit to a Plasma unit. Might have to lose the Targetting arrays and maybe change the one shiled drone into a Gun drone or something to get the points free. Pathfinders will help with the impact of it.
It's a very typical Tau list though in most respects.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/31 18:04:23
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 18:41:57
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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I currently run 2 Crisis Suit configurations.
The first is an HQ unit, Plasma Rifles and Fusion Blasters with Multi-Tracker. The boss gets all the drones and such while body guards carry a target array making the entire unit BS 4. If I have a full 3 suit unit, I can expect to destroy anything short of a Land Raider if I get inside 12 inches and I should pop the Raider if I get to melta range. Against marines I should kill 5 at 12 inches, 3 plus if they are Terminators.
My other configuration is HQ or Elite, twin missile pods and a target array. Perfect for light armor, good against light infantry and most importantly I can keep the suits well away from retaliation.
For me the big thing is that all my Crisis and Broadside Suits are BS 4, you don't get enough shots with a unit to waste any and the targeting arrays are more cost effective than marker lights.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/31 18:44:51
Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 18:51:49
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Been Around the Block
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Thank you very much for your feedback Jancoran. And yes, it's 1500 pts^^
So we do agree that AntiTank is quite good, maybe a little too much, but not THAT much.
At 1500 I usually find more Metal Boxes that Terminators, and while Deathwing is not that much played, I can see Draigowing suffering very much from Discipline penalties (markerlights!) and S10Ap1.
The third troop is totally a GREAT idea, but I wasn't unsure how to get it. I usually play my D-Fish in cover (or better in BLOS), taunting a unit of MEQs around, killing 1-2 a turn, disbarking out LOS to force them to run, thinking they will rapid fire my poor FW next turn. Then I re-embark, move away, SMS them. In 3-4 turns, I usually eat a 10man Space Marines this way, if I'm on Kill Points! (all of this to say that stripping down the poor devilfish seems me like a painful option!)
Let's keep this discussion healty and active, I really want to take this list to competitive play!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 19:42:46
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Yes your anti-tank seems very good for 1500 points. Just to illustrate that, I use only three Broadsides at 2000 points and you have 3 Railguns at 1500. My 2000 point list has NO Crisis suits except the commander. Your army at 1500 has quite a few.
That's why I see more upside than downside to switching the one unit out. AND, let it not go unnoticed that the Plasma is not useless against vehicles, plus the range difference only matters in turn 1, really. After that, they are coming for you and easily in range of your plasma.
As for Devilfishs, I run mine the same way you run yours, so you got my vote. But having only TWO troops means that I can almost guarantee myself a tie against this force. Pop the Fire Warriors and it's a tie. I'd make it my lifes mission to do just that if I were an elite low model count type army (but you know, who plays those nayways right? Lol).
So yeah. At 1500, the list is potent and like I say, very very typical. Hordes, especially outflanking ones, will really give you a problem like all Tau, so deploy accordingly and good luck.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 20:48:06
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Executing Exarch
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Having played my farsight bomb enough, I agree you have enough anti tank. I only have 4 railguns on the board at 2k, and I never seem to have a problem. I also have about 14-18 crisis suits as well, so maybe that has something to do with it....
On the XV'8's I think target arrays are a bit overkill for twin linked weapons, half your costs by taking a target lock for split fire and a flamer/blacksun for cheap. The drones need to be shield drones or no drones, as their sole purpose is to eat S8 fire. Also bond any team with drones.
Warfish are too expensive for my tastes and they dont seem to do all that much more for the points. I like dumbfish, but the warfish has its merits.
Multi tracker is a must on a hammerhead, and a target lock is not bad if you have the points. Drop missiles for the BC's, so you can get more dakka.
Suicide melta commanders are nice, but the scatter dice can be a harsh mistress. Even with the marker beacon, you have to risk landing within 6" of an enemy tank. It can be effective and make your points back, but do be careful because it can just as easily be points wasted.
Only 2 troops is light, you should really try to shave some upgrades to get a third unit.
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The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 22:22:00
Subject: Tau [1500-competitive WIP]: New Tau Cadre incarnation
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Been Around the Block
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Warfish are surely mostly overpriced (as a large part of our old, poor codex!!), but they perform exactly like we want....they taunt, they sting and run away!
About the TA on TL XV8, let's consider this: tau NEED to hit. We have no chances of missing, we are too fragile and easily overwhelmed if we don't balance carefully our fire. 3 TL shots are not 4 shots, are 3 "almost sure" (89% napkin math!) hits. Get in a damn cover save, and that drops to 44%. Stunlocking is good, but lowering out chances to 75% in the "hit" column, means going 38%...that's a lot nearer to 33% (1 on 3) than 50% (1 on 2). 1 hit could save your day. As above, it's a costly business to run a tau army, pointwise. We need to squeeze every single hit, and those hits need to hammer down our opponent's plans. Otherwise, we are lost.
only my 2 cents
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