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Hi Guys

A serial forum lurker here who has finally got around to posting, I am looking for any advice possible for a list I am currently building with a friend for the UK 40k doubles tournament in september, we are building the lists now to get a bit of practice in. My idea is to build a flamer based blood angels assault force and my friend is a railgun platform with a couple of firewarriors to hold our own objectives, any advice would be greately apreciated I'm a bit of a 40k noob (fantasy vet crossing the divide)

Librarian Hand Flamer in one of the razorbacks (Unsure of powers help please?)
Assault Squad 5 man Razorback with twin linked HFlamer (Sergeant has PW)
Assault Squad 5 man Razorback with twin linked HFlamer
Assault Squad 5 man Razorback with twin linked HFlamer
Baal Predator
Baal Predator
Furioso Dreadnought Frag cannon in drop pod

Tau

Shas'ui Cant remember his build

12 Firewarriors
3 XV88s (with +1bs)
3 XV88s (with +1bs)
Hammerhead with Railgun

As I say bit of a 40k noob any advice would be greately apreciated

Thanks

Rini

Hand flamers, or "hand" anything versions of two-handed weapons, are wasted points. Give up that extra attack - it's not going to kill you.

Also, I would definitely reconsider the flamerbacks. Flamers + vehicles = horrible mix. If you really must run a flamer based BA list, consider going with a foot list - you can get more flamers in that way, and you're not going to be helpless once your few transports are popped (3 MSU flamerback squads = 3 TL HFlamers. 3 10man assault squads = 6 flamers. 6 > 3).

I'm not a fan of frag cannons. Even with rending, this is one case where I'm not willing to give up that extra attack.

Love the Tau side of the list!
He's doing a lot of the heavy lifting, which frees you up to roll up some anti-infantry.
TL flamers on fast tanks aren't bad at all in my book.
Librarian has a psychic hood- about all he has going for him.
Gate and force dome prob have the most utility

TL flamers on AV11 tanks are horrible, especially compared to the alternatives. Let me put it this way:

Drop a TL HFlamer template on a squad of 10 marines armed with 8 bolters, a meltagun, and a missile launcher, plus a sergeant with a bolter/fist combo, from an AV11 Razorback. Let's do the math:

Flamer hits 3 models (average).
83% of those (twin-linked) will be a wound, so we'll call it two.
66% of those wounds will be saved (3+), so we'll call it one kill.

One bolter marine dead.

Return fire:
Meltagun within 6" - 66% chance it hits (BS4), 92% chance it penetrates, 50% chance that penetrating shot kills the tank = 30% chance the tank dies, and 61% chance it can't shoot or move.
Two options here - either they fire the missile launcher, or they assault. I'll run numbers for each:
Missile Launcher:
66% chance it hits (BS4), 50% chance it penetrates (S8), 33% chance it kills the vehicle = 11% chance of a dead vehicle, or 33% chance it's not going to be able to shoot next turn.

Personally, I'd
Assault (assuming that the vehicle moved last turn):
8 marines + 1 sergeant = 8 krak grenades + 3 PFist
8 krak grenades vs AV10, 50% hits (4+), 33% penetrate, 33% kills = 5% chance of a dead tank (17% chance it won't be able to fire next turn)
3 PFist attacks vs AV10, 50% hits (4+), 66% penetrate, 33% kills = 11% chance of a dead tank (33% chance it won't be able to fire next turn)

I even worked it using the percentages (rounded up because I'm lazy) to make it look better for the tank. That's still most likely going to be one dead tank - if you'd prefer, I could run it with the numbers instead of percentages. Either way, the TL HFlamer on the Razorback is still only going to kill about 1 marine per turn.

I don't have a hard-on for BA flame-backs or anything, but.. lol

Got pretty much tabled by BA (flame-back) list playing eldar.

You forget that BA vehicles are fast tanks!
Totally different kettle of fish.
You will be in a position to cover a lot more models with your template.
Marines are not the only army you'll face- this will do well against GEQ, whilst he has solid TAU backup.
Did you know that a twin-linked flamer gets a re-roll on the armor penetration table???

This also nullifies all your math assaulting the tank. You will need to hit on 6, not 4+.

Sure it will kill 1-2 marines a turn- it's not biased towards this role.

Is the Baal predator the ap3 flamers?? That's all kinds of nasty to MEQ

To be honest, i dont rate flamebacks soo highly.
If im putting something on a razorback, its an assault cannon for its dual purpose role.

If you want flame templates, run a baal, they are far better at it than a razorback.