Can One Codex rule ever supercede another Codex?

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**wheresmypulitzer**

Playing a game against Daemons. I'm about to fire my Lootas into his Fateweaver when his Changling uses Glamour of Tzeentch. I said okay I'm fearless cause of Mob Rule. He argues that glamour of tzeentch says unmodified Leadership. But Mob Rule says you may Always use the number of boyz as your leadership if you want, and if that number is 11 you're fearless. We couldn't agree, and I rolled at leadership ten and passed anyways.

So Basically, what happens when two codex's rules directly oppose each other like that?

**rigeld2**

Glamour is a leadership test iirc. Fearless let's you auto pass morale checks.

There's no opposition.

**Kiredor**

In this specific situation they don't, as the Changeling's ability calls for a leadership test, and Fearless only affects Morale and Pinning tests, (Which are leadership tests, but specific types) Testing on Ld 10 was the correct response in that situation.

In situations where codexes, or rules in general, clash, which is few, the more specific rule wins out.

**DeathReaper**

"Can One Codex rule ever supercede another Codex?"
Yes one codex rule can supercede another Codex. Specific trumps general.

Kiredor has it 100%

Kiredor wrote:In situations where codexes, or rules in general, clash, which is few, the more specific rule wins out.

**FenWulf29**

tbh you just got to have that ''sportmanship'' and discuss and decide what you will do if another situation. Aprt from that i agree with Kiredor

**Jidmah**

From experience, "sportsmanship" is defined as "You should agree that it works to my benefit".

If the game is in progress, few people will be able to make rational decisions if, depending on the outcome, a key unit might be in danger. Rule disputes should always be done before or after the game. During the game I have found it way more practical to simply dice off.

**Bat Manuel**

10 is a modified leadership. Ork unmodified leadership is 7....which leadership should you use? That would be the question to ask.

**Kommissar Kel**

10 is not a modified LD; Mob rule allows the number of Orks in the unit to replace the Ld stat(to a max of 10).

A Modified Ld would be a unit that gets affected by a Psyker battle squad thus taking a negative to their ld equal to the number of Psykers.

Or a special rule that grants a specific bonus or penalty as a -# or a +#.

**Lordhat**

Kommissar Kel wrote:10 is not a modified LD; Mob rule allows the number of Orks in the unit to replace the Ld stat(to a max of 10).

A Modified Ld would be a unit that gets affected by a Psyker battle squad thus taking a negative to their ld equal to the number of Psykers.

Or a special rule that grants a specific bonus or penalty as a -# or a +#.

I would disagree with this statement; If the leadership value being used is not the one listed on the model's profile, it has been modified.

**Grakmar**

Lordhat wrote:
Kommissar Kel wrote:10 is not a modified LD; Mob rule allows the number of Orks in the unit to replace the Ld stat(to a max of 10).

A Modified Ld would be a unit that gets affected by a Psyker battle squad thus taking a negative to their ld equal to the number of Psykers.

Or a special rule that grants a specific bonus or penalty as a -# or a +#.

I would disagree with this statement; If the leadership value being used is not the one listed on the model's profile, it has been modified.

It's been substituted, but it doesn't have any modifiers acting on it.

**grendel083**

Modified or not, the mob rules states that the Orks may always use the size of the mob in place of Ld (up to 10 of course)

**destuctir**

yup the mob rule replaces the leadership not modifies it. so you do get 10 against things that roll against unmodified because you havent got a +1 or +2 or -4 leadership modifier you have a new one

**Kommissar Kel**

Lordhat wrote:
Kommissar Kel wrote:10 is not a modified LD; Mob rule allows the number of Orks in the unit to replace the Ld stat(to a max of 10).

A Modified Ld would be a unit that gets affected by a Psyker battle squad thus taking a negative to their ld equal to the number of Psykers.

Or a special rule that grants a specific bonus or penalty as a -# or a +#.

I would disagree with this statement; If the leadership value being used is not the one listed on the model's profile, it has been modified.

Characteristic modifiers are defined on page 6 of the BRB, first column last paragraph states modifiers are additions, or subtractions to the characteristic; Mob rule, Rites of Battle, and other characteristic-replacing Special rules are never modifying the characteristic in question(they are replacing them).

**Runna**

I think you guys did it right, and I agree that it's not modified, it simply is the leadership. It's a pretty clear rule.
There are some not so clear rules running around, this was not one of them.
I also agree that it's best to discuss how you're going to treat rules, terrains, and situations that see iffy before you start the game, otherwise, a quick net search on the casual choice to deal with the problem or a roll off.