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How do you deal with them with Orks? Thanks.

What kind of Dark Eldar list do you generally face? Or do you want more general advice against the army as a whole?

Against the army as a whole please.

Alright, may I ask what kind of list do you generally run? Because the Orks can pull off a large variety of wildly differing lists that can all work pretty well.

I use a mix of cc and shooting.

Warboss-pk

Big Mek-KFF



Nobs-2pks, 3bcs, 2 c+s and a painboy with cybork bodies

Kommandoes-all Choppa + slugga

Lootas

20 boys-Choppa + slugga

20 boys-Choppa + slugga

Trukk-big shoota

13 stormboyz + Zagstrukk

3 deffkopptas-3 rokkits and 1 buzzsaw

3 Killa Kans- 2 rokkits and 1 grotzooka

Battlewagon-4 big shootas and kannon

Is this in enough detail or do you want it in more detail???


I usually play against raiders, wyches, beastmaster squad(dum dum dum!), wracks, etc.

From personal experience:

Lootas. Lootas are *fantastic* against Dark Eldar - particularly because their mass str7 shots doom all of the Dark Eldar vehicles, even when they've gone flat out. Note, however, that as a result Lootas are almost always a priority for Dark Eldar, and they will be gunning for them with splinter fire. Screen them with shoota boyz , and try to get them into cover during deployment. At very least, you want to get the first turn so you can get them firing before they start taking casualties.

Killa Kanz with Grotzookas. Str6 denies FNP to the majority of their infantry, not to mention bypassing all of their saves save Shadowfield, Incubi, and their MC's. Absolutely decimates any of their infantry if they are hit by it. That str6 will also seriously endanger their vehicles.

Kustom Mega Blastas are fantastic against MC's in general - it will wound them on 3+ and deny them armour saves and FNP if they have it. Either that, or rokkits will do the same, but not deny FNP. Toss either on your Kanz.

Generally, I'd recommend two units of Kanz, either all with one of the above mentioned weapons, or one one two units, each fully fitted with one choice. (ie, 3 kanz with grotzookas, 3 kanz with rokkits, etc).

Don't be too worried about engaging their wyches with walkers - they will need 6's to hit your walkers with their haywire grenades, which means an average of 2 hits from a full health unit. They WILL get their 4+ invul against the walker's attacks, though. Remember that Orks will be wounding DE infantry on 3's if they charge, 4's otherwise - which means they will be putting out much more damage than usual. DE MC's are mostly only seen in WWP army lists, though - so otherwise stick to rokkits for AV and Grotzookas to decimate their infantry.

In regards to DE WWP lists, use your trukk boyz to zoom up to the portals, and surround them. Jump infantry and jetbikes will still get out, but you will create problems for Beastmasters, Wyches, MC's, and so on.

Kustom Force Field, as always, to help fend off their AV fire.

Burnawagons will generally destroy any infantry unit it fires at.

Try NOT to use Nob squads or Nob Bikers - DE have access to plenty of str8 ap2 weapons, meaning that for every failed save, you're losing an entire nob.

Don't use the Deffrolla - the DE vehicles are skimmers, so they'll be dodging your rams on a 3+.

Use Slugga Boyz to assualt the vehicles - mass str4 attacks, plus that Powerklaw, will often have good results. Assaulting general shooty bits isn't a bad idea either. Just watch out for assaulting wyches - they will be hitting first, and they will have their 4+ invuls. Leave assaulting Wyches to the larger shoota boy squads.

Big Shootas can be targeted towards vehicles, if nothing else.

The DE will likely use their venoms to focus on your larger squads with concentrated poison fire - focus fire on them in turn. Shake them at least.

Might want to trade the stormboyz for dakkajetz or buggies, might want to do the same for the deffkoptas. Generally you want to avoid too many units that rely on toughness for protection as the sheer number of poisoned weapons will render that kind of a defense worthless. Additionally, be prepared to lose the battlewagon to lance fire, always have a back up plan.

You should also probably replace your Kommandos with either Lootas or Nobz, probably Lootas in this case, additionally, take more Nobz, more Nobz never hurt anyone. Lootaz are your best friends against the Dark Eldar, as their paper planes hate them to no end and they can mulch through their low toughness scores and saves with hilarious ease.

This is just my initial recommendation, I'll get more in depth within the day.

Actually, that's a point. Put nobs into all your boy units, give them Powerklaws.

Again though, avoid nob squads.

Zaggy stormboyz may work - but you're relying on reserves. In the case of DE, you're looking to assault vehicles the turn you DS - and they'll likely have moved enough to warrant hitting on 6's. Take this into consideration when thinking about fielding them.

Deffkoptas aren't actually a bad investment. With twin-linked rokkits, they actually have a marginally higher hit ratio than bs3 kanz. They will drop like flies when shot at, though. If you give them Buzzsaws, and If you do manage to get the first turn, and if the DE player decides to deploy on the table - use the scout and turbo boost ability to move the 'koptas 24" towards the enemy prior to game start - then use them to get into CC with the Ravagers: auto hits with rear armour means a dead vehicle. That's a lot of 'if's" though. Also, Rather take them individually than in units. They only need to lose one to test moral, otherwise. A failed moral test would lose you the entire unit.

Kommandos won't help you much here - the DE will be moving very quickly to you - so they will only have ravagers / razorwings at their rear field

Also, with the KFF, vehicle survivability is actually surprisingly high. In regards to the battlewagon, a single ravager will only, on average, have 0.5 shots make it through. (2 hit -> 1 glances/pens -> 4+ cover save). That's about 0.7 for a venom full of blaster-born. Combine that with the 4+ to kill on the damage chart, the chances are better than most other armies. The biggest threat to your vehicles are MC's and haywire grenades. The KFF is particularly infuriating for the DE.

Please could you tell me why beastmasters are good in cc? What weapons do they have?

Beastmasters? Not the beastmasters themselves, but the creatures they bring along.

Particularly, the Khymerae: strength 4, 4 attacks on the charge, initiative 6, AND they have a 4+ invul save. As an Ork player, these are the guys you want to look out for. You will generally see about 10 of them in a beastmaster's unit.

Additionally, Beastmasters and the beasts that accompany them are type Beasts - so they have fleet, and assault 12". With a good fleet role, they can move to assault anything within 24" range.

At least they're still only toughness 3.

Beastmasters also have flocks which is where most of the damage should come from. With 5 attacks each with rending.

Razorwing flocks have also (in my experience) proven infuriating for Ork players. Initiative 5, strength 3, but 6 attacks on the charge and most importantly, 5 wounds per base. Your typical Beastmaster squad has near as many wounds as a 30 boyz strong mob, and can soak up a lot of your basic attacks on the razorwings while the Khymerae bounce PK attacks off their invuln. Orks have to inflict a ton of damage to begin dulling their efficiency in combat.

Chew them up with long range fire before they get a chance to hit your lines. Alternatively, unless they're being run with the baron, they have no grenades. Keep your forward units in cover and they'll be initiative 1 when you assault, giving you the chance to thin them out before they swing back.

SiLKY wrote:Beastmasters also have flocks which is where most of the damage should come from. With 5 attacks each with rending.

Orks have a 6+ save, so they really don't care about rending. Additionally, the flocks are str3, so they will only be wounding on 5's. They're nasty - but it's the Khymera that are the greatest threat, in my opinion. They will also suffer from the nob's PK, if it gets in - a single PK wound and the entire flock bites it.

Well you don't normally run the beasts at a unit like that. You would have them head for something like a trukk or buggie. With the mass amounts of rending you will crack it open. Then the venoms go to work.

Against DE run lootas...a bunch of lootas. Kans with grotzookas can also be a big pain. Pretty much the way to beat DE is to S6 + spam them. Get as much out there that is at least S6 so you can crack vehicles and deny FNP. Horde orks will struggle massively with DE venom spam...its just a rock beats scissors equation like venom spam and nids or marines.

Trukk mobs can be threatening with a KFF bubble. The new dakka jets scare me to no end with the amount of dakka a fighta ace can put into the air, especially if they have a weirdboy generating extra Waaaghs!

Deffkoptas are a nice alpha strike but don't expect ravagers to be open to assault. A decent DE player will bubble wrap them with warrior venoms or the few raiders he might have brought along. Oh no you destroyed my 60 pt transport, but I saved my 115pt "tank."

Expect every vehicle to have a 5++ that you can do nothing about. Try to stay together and not let the DE target one part of your army and not be threatend in return. If they can just write it off as lost.

Nobs aren't that bad to run if you have them in a wagon or have 'eavy armor and a painboy. Yes you can ID them with a DL, but you loose one nob and keep a trukk alive. Bikes can get you into CC faster but the toughness boost. is compeletly wasted. The Cybork can keep a nob alive if they get smacked w/ a DL shot.

Ultimately the main power of the DE comes from their vehicles. Stop them and you're in good shape. I would run a warphead, a Big Mekk w/ KFF, so trukk mobs with nob w/ PK and pole. 2-3 dakka jets (reserve them if you aren't going first) and then some koptas, lootas should be taken in bulk. Kans are nice but being blasts targetting (relatively) small targets can be iffy for taking out mech.

Lootas and rokkits, and lots and lots of boyz

I say use moar dakka.......always works for orkz!

They aren't partial to burna boyz either.

Burnas are a lot more vicious against T3, 5+ armour than T 4, 3+ armour, and they aren't shabby at wiping marines off the map. I play both races, and i've seen whole units just vanish under burna fire.

orks have a lot of st4 shooting that can down a dark eldar vehicle if need be. He should be worried about that.

Any ork could of prayed extra hard to mork that morning and downed himself a dark eldar raider with his trusty slugga.

Akroma06 wrote:Kans are nice but being blasts targetting (relatively) small targets can be iffy for taking out mech.

When you're vomiting out 6 small blasts, you should have some effect on the vehicles.

In regards to the Rending - the average strength they will get will be 8. Combine that with 6's to hit of the Ork vehicles moved 7" with red paint, and you won't need much to worry about. On average, each flock will get in one hit in, which alone has a 1/6 chance of getting that rend. That rend will guarantee an auto-glance, at least.

Destroying a venom is actually not a bad thing in this case. Robbing the DE of those 12 venom shots, and removing the mobility of the unit inside works really well. The general DE AV fire will still struggle to get through that KFF, so removing the anti-infantry fire is a notable score as well. That poison fire is the best way to get rid of boy mobs - slowly erode them to the point they have to test leadership.

Ok, here goes, is this an ok list against Dark Eldar? All opinions are welcome. Will be assessing at the end on how many points I should play.

HQ: Big Mek-Eavy armour, cybork body, bosspole, KFF 105

HQ: Should I take a warboss, weirdboy or shokk attack gun Mek?



Elites: 5 lootas 75

Elites:Nob squad-7 nobs, eavy armour,cybork bodies, waagh banner, bosspole, 2xPK, 3xBC, 2x C+S, Painboy 365 /w Trukk 35

Elites:I have also got kommandoes.


Troops: 20 choppa and slugga boyz with bc nob and bosspole 146

Troops: 19 choppa and slugga boyz with bc nob and bosspole 146 w/ Battlewagon 4 big shootas and kannon. 120

Have also got 4 big shootas I could put in.



Fast attack:
13 stormboyz + pk nob with bosspole and eavy armour 213

I have also got zagstrukk but I figured that I shouldn't use deep strike because of their speed.

Fast attack: 3 deffkoptas with rokkits and a buzzsaw 170

Fast attack: could also proxy a dakkajet

Heavy Support: 3 kans 2x rokkits and a grotzooka 145

Heavy support: looted wagon with boomgun and big shoota 110

Heavy support: Have also got a deff dredd and a lone kannon.


Please critisise constructively!

Zid wrote:Lootas and rokkits, and lots and lots of boyz

This is how Im seeing it. Lootas and rokkit buggies especially. The buggies can move up 12 inches and still fire a volley, and being TL @ BS2 its slightly better then BS3, so you WILL be hitting something. And last I checked STR8 against most DE armor is easypeesy. So with all your loota fire and rokkits in the air, your going to be dropping their vehicles like flies, and they are mighty easy to wound in CC.

The trick to playing DE is to cripple or outright destroy a unit before it gets to fight back.

The trick to going Hulk vs Loki on them is to still be standing when they're done.

Lots of boyz = lots still standing, though you will have lost a lot to the venom's output each turn.

I've found that grot mobs are surprisingly effective vs DE once you shuck them from their paper planes. They are cheap enough to be sacrificial, and have enough bodies to drown the typically small DE units. Added to which poison is more a hinderance than a help as they'll still be wounding them on 4's anyway..

vs DE, I would say drop the Nobz completely, do 2 or 3 x 5 Lootas,

Deffkopta's x 2 with Rokkit and buzz, to do Alpha moves, this puts DE in corners or playing from behind.

1x 3xBuggies with TL -Rokkit

Drop choppa boys, go Shoota,

You want to avoid taking Nobs why again? Two wounds each, great toughness, 4+ armor, FNP, and a 5++. Wound shenanigans. The guys armed with Big Choppas negate Wyches FNP, and if you get charged by Incubi, your Nobs just shrug it off.

Dark lances (2 wounds and fnp mean nothing to ID)

Poison everything - great toughness is now irrelevant except in close combat.

4+ armour - If you spend out for it, this is helpful. DE have a good supply of AP 2 and power weapons though.Spam enough poison shots onto the unit and the Painboy will go down, as he doesn't get to have 'eavy armour, and then the FNP goes with him.


5++ - Also helpful, but still only a 5+ save.

Wound shenanigans - until 6th hits They can help out a lot.

BC do negate wych FNP, and are actually a bit more useful than a PK vs DE, as a PK is a bit overkill, and expensive. Wyches do have a 4+ inv though

Incubi charging nobz isn't exactly what i'd call a shrug off. Their armour and fnp are negated, the Incubi will hit first, and have a 3+ save against anything the Nobs throw back at them bar a PK. I've seen the combat go both ways , and i play both races.

Nobz are ok-ish against DE IF they can get into CC with them, and are a decent sized mob. Minimobs of 5 or less will just go down without getting to swing.

Hi, I am playing a 1000 pt game against Dark Eldar tomorrow.

Is there any chance that somebody could make me a decent Ork list for this because I am still not too sure as to which Ork units are decent. I would be extremely greatful for this.

The units that I have are listed in an earlier post.

Thanks in advance.

P.S:- I could use a dakkajet.

Nagashek wrote:You want to avoid taking Nobs why again? Two wounds each, great toughness, 4+ armor, FNP, and a 5++. Wound shenanigans. The guys armed with Big Choppas negate Wyches FNP, and if you get charged by Incubi, your Nobs just shrug it off.

As Ascalam pointed out, the common str8 ap2 ranged weapon within the DE army will mean no armour save, no FNP, and a single nob lost for each failed invul or cover save due to ID rules.

I agree that Nobs will generally win in CC, but they need to *get* into CC, and the DE are notoriously agile.

Canuckish wrote:vs DE, I would say drop the Nobz completely, do 2 or 3 x 5 Lootas,

Deffkopta's x 2 with Rokkit and buzz, to do Alpha moves, this puts DE in corners or playing from behind.

1x 3xBuggies with TL -Rokkit

Drop choppa boys, go Shoota,

I wouldnt waste my time with deffkoptas against DE. They will be shot down in not time flat. Instea, go nuts with rokkit buggies. Like I stated earlier, they can move 12 inches and still fire their 24inch rokkits. So if your going first, and you deploy them as far front as possible, your 12 inches from your table edge, leaving the DE only 36 inches of table to hide on, so start your turn, move 12 inches, leaving them only 24 inches. Guess how far your rokkits shoot?