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If Nork was part of a CCS with a priest attached, would he benefit from righteous fury? While it is stated "this has no effect on ogryns, who are simply confused by the priests rhetoric" is that just referring to ogryns as the elite unit alone? The fluff would support the notion that he would since due to his greater intelligence that a regular ogryn he would understand it?

I believe the guard FAQ says he gets the effect.

i just read it, so i can't see anything to support that Juraigamer...


So i'd say no, he doesn't.

Nevermind I thought it was in the FAQ,

He gets the benefit of priest's rerolls.

Why?

Because he's not listed as an ogryn. He's just an HQ choice.

He is still an Ogryn. He just isn't a normal run-of-the-mill Ogryn; similar to how named Nids are the same as their non-named counter-parts (such as Doom of Malan'tai being a Zoanthrope).

But the fact that he is an ogryn is only stated by fluff (that is his race); other than that, as stated by Juraigamer, he is not listed as an ogryn rules wise by another other means?

juraigamer wrote:Because he's not listed as an ogryn. He's just an HQ choice.

IG Codex Page 67 would beg to differ.

Calls him an Ogryn in the very first sentence; and repeats it 4 more times.

Then he has the bulky rule which is very specific to Ogryns(calling them by name twice in the entry: first in fluff and then in what the rule actually does).

So even if you were to ignore the Tyranid FAQ clarifying that the special nid-critters are the same as their base type, and you still erroneously believe that Fluff =/= Rule; you still have to then claim that "Bulky" does nothing to/for him since only Orgyns count for that rule.

So, yeah: Nork is every bit an Ogryn.

Also the fluff about him being smarter is irrelevant, priests shouldn't lead abhumans ever.

It's pretty obvious that Nork is an Ogryn for all the reasons mentioned above.

Is he an Ogryn in the strictest sense of RAW? No.

To be fair, he's one of the least points-efficient things in Codex:IG so if you're fielding him, I really wouldn't begrudge you your re-rolls.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Is he an Ogryn in the strictest sense of RAW? No.

To be fair, he's one of the least points-efficient things in Codex:IG so if you're fielding him, I really wouldn't begrudge you your re-rolls.

DoW

Thats what I meant really, if I used this at a tournament though I assume there would be issues?

The only reason I intend on fielding him is to bulk out a ccs to act as a countercharge unit with a priest with evicerator and officer with power weapon, medi pack for FNP and flamers then stick them in a chimera? Seems like a decent idea to me

Back to my point though, I'd only field him if I knew how to make him not suck and righteous fury seems like a decent idea to make him more efficient. Any other suggestions?

It's pretty safe to say that 100% of tournaments would not let Nork benefit from Righteous Fury, despite the fact that it would technically be allowed.

Honestly, unless you're really married to the fluff and model, Nork is a huge waste of points that could be better spent almost anywhere else in the codex, even if you're looking for counter-charge CC. A couple of other options:

1) Lord Commissar with Ogryn, but they're almost as overpriced as Nork.
2) Blob squads with commissars. Power weapons on the sergeants makes for lots of attacks and 30+ stubborn/reroll Ld guardsmen are hard to break.
3) Straken is fun, but expensive too. He's a beast though and opponents often underestimate him because he's *just* a guardsman.
4) Rough Riders are an okay Counter-Charge unit but they compete in a slot for the best skimmer in the game.

All in all, it's tough to have a single, cost-effective unit to fulfill the role you're looking for. Guard suffer in this regard as you generally have to build the list around the same theme.

Best of luck though!

DoW

TBH most players won't know any better, RAW he can use the re-rolls so go ahead. There's far bigger issues for TO's to worry about.

Actually I see it as the other way. They may know that righteous fury does not work on ogryns and they see one there with your CCS that IS rerolling. If I saw that and did not know that much more about the IG codex I would definitely want to see your dex and hear your argument.

Hmmmm well thanks for the input guys. I just love the model and fluff really and after reading up on just how much of a waste fielding him is I think I wont be using him; especially considering the amount of hassle that seems to surround the only viable means I can imagine of actually making him any good :|

Seriously? What were gw thinking making Nork and priests THAT BAD... Two of my favourite IG units fluff and model wise but horrifically overpriced.

Priests aren't over-priced. Letting 51 models re-roll to-hits in CC for 45 points? Yes please.

51? Where did you reach that figure?
45pts for a 1 wound, toughness 3 IC thats almost a guaranteed kill point without any cc punch without a 15pt evicerator? Seems ludicrous to me without being able to attach them to the only cc orientated ig unit; ogryns.

Testify wrote:Priests aren't over-priced. Letting 51 models re-roll to-hits in CC for 45 points? Yes please.

Do you mean 325 pts base(factoring in 5 50pt platoons, plus PCS, plus priest )? well yes.

But then you also have to factoir in that per the rules you must do every thing possible to get that priest IC in B2B in CC; where he dies from 4-5 basic SM attacks on average(before any model in the priest's unit get to strike).

He is actually worse against most other armies who are not Guard, Tau, or Orks.

All that is also without any commissars in the unit to provide stubborn(which adds at least 35 pts).

Trephines: you can attach them to Ogryns, it is just that Righteous fury does nothing for the ogryns(or ratlings)

Also PS: that is what I get for writing half my post then taking my toddler for a walk....


But Hey! I got beer out of the deal.

Kommissar Kel wrote:But then you also have to factoir in that per the rules you must do every thing possible to get that priest IC in B2B in CC; where he dies from 4-5 basic SM attacks on average(before any model in the priest's unit get to strike).

Not on the initial move. And IG have enough bodies to throw in the middle that it'll take some time to allow the priest to move up.

Not on the initial IG move, but 51-52 IG models assaulting most things near enough to assault range, sans upgrades are still worthless enough(108 basic Str 3, WS 3 re-roll to hit attacks can be pretty well ignored by many units that are assaulty enough to get assaulted by this giant unwieldy unit).

But the more likely scenario is for the unit to get assaulted(51 models should be difficult to maneuver into assault range of any non-artillery unit), wherein the preist must, as an IC, get into B2B contact(and die horribly).

Kommissar Kel wrote:Not on the initial IG move, but 51-52 IG models assaulting most things near enough to assault range, sans upgrades are still worthless enough(108 basic Str 3, WS 3 re-roll to hit attacks can be pretty well ignored by many units that are assaulty enough to get assaulted by this giant unwieldy unit).

Which is why, if you want to run assault guard, you buy power weapons for sergeants, and include a couple Commissars in the blob.

But the more likely scenario is for the unit to get assaulted(51 models should be difficult to maneuver into assault range of any non-artillery unit), wherein the preist must, as an IC, get into B2B contact(and die horribly).

He's still limited to 6 inches. So you stretch a line of your 53 model unit back 12" or so, and put him at the end. He won't be in combat for at least 2 "pile-in" phases.

OK power weapons first: you have now spent 375 on a single Troops choice, that is not exactly meant to both effect the battlefield and hold an objective.,

Then you add in the commissar(also with a power weapon) and you have a 420 point unit(without the commissar the 325 point unit is likely to start running after the initial assault against all but the worst CC units, if not swept since the I is so low).

I personally run a static Guard list with power weapons on all the Sgts and a Commissar or 2 per blob; I let assaulty troopers get near enough to me that I can assault them. It works both from smaller unit sizes(21-31 models), and not having an IC.