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For all of those Loyalist Dark Angel players (and fallen for that matter), how do you think that dark angels are? (fluff, list rules, whatever)

It is like playing Warhammer on hard mode. There are one or two major builds out there, mainly based on terminators and bikes. Right now, I am holding off on anything til the new edition and codex come out.

apparently mat ward is going to write the next codex...

Aaaaand stop while you're ahead. The Matt Ward hate wasn't funny months ago, and it ain't funny now.

Timmy149 wrote:apparently mat ward is going to write the next codex...

Dark Angel players should be so lucky.

Right now, the choice of codex writers is:

Mat Ward. Good internal balance with a couple of obviously overpowered and underpowered units, but still multiple ways to play the list. Generally terrible fluff, mostly down to his writing style. Generally better at Space Marine books.
Phil Kelly. Bad internal balance, generally lists are based around one or two tricks, but still serviceable. Great fluff. Generally better at xenos books.
Robin Cruddace. Complete crapshoot in terms of variety - two of his codices have had no options, one had eneough for four books. Terrible internal balance. One or two powerbuilds. Terrible, dull fluff half copy/pasted from second edition, half made up on the spot.

Getting Ward as your Space Marine codex writer at least means you'll have a strong list with some good options. You might have some terrible fluff, but at least your army will work well.

-Loki- wrote:

Timmy149 wrote:apparently mat ward is going to write the next codex...

Dark Angel players should be so lucky.

Right now, the choice of codex writers is:

Mat Ward. Good internal balance with a couple of obviously overpowered and underpowered units, but still multiple ways to play the list. Generally terrible fluff, mostly down to his writing style. Generally better at Space Marine books.
Phil Kelly. Bad internal balance, generally lists are based around one or two tricks, but still serviceable. Great fluff. Generally better at xenos books.
Robin Cruddace. Complete crapshoot in terms of variety - two of his codices have had no options, one had eneough for four books. Terrible internal balance. One or two powerbuilds. Terrible, dull fluff half copy/pasted from second edition, half made up on the spot.

Getting Ward as your Space Marine codex writer at least means you'll have a strong list with some good options. You might have some terrible fluff, but at least your army will work well.

But that's the thing! Alot of DA players are DA players for the fluff and individuality of the chapter, not because of power builds or tourney winning capacities. Personally, I'm a bit saddened that DA are becoming the new poster boys. Sure, they'll get a new shiny codex maybe with more playability, but if that's the case, many new players will start DA because they will be able to win battles, and I don't like being on any bandwagon, even if I was there first.

They were my first army that I picked up in 3rd edition, though it was basically DA played like normal marines. Then I sold them to a friend when I started playing more guard in 4th. Now in 5th I started them back up, but as DW.

I dont really have any interest of playing DA as normal marines or lists like that. I love the specialized lists like DW and RW, so I hope they still keep those in 6th and its semi competative atleast.

I love their fluff I read the purging of kalidus and it was great too. Just not my type of color scheme...though I'm happy to seem them get some love. The lion's legion always gets a thumbs up from me ^-^

i think DA is fine, been playing them for a while now

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:It is like playing Warhammer on hard mode.

Bwahahaha. Totally this.
I remember when the current DA book came out ai felt as though DAs had been ruined. Even brand new the units were overpriced and WHERE THE FETH IS THE CHEAP PLASMA. I have high hopes for a new DA book making it possible to play a DA army with plasma for everyone that is not over powered: Good Luck. I'd also love to see an Iron Wing build with no infantry at all; or a 0-1 limit on infantry and the Razorback treated as a scoring troop light tank and maybe a unique PC Razor and Pred.
Anyways there is plenty of improvement to be had.

AustonT wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:It is like playing Warhammer on hard mode.

Bwahahaha. Totally this.
I remember when the current DA book came out ai felt as though DAs had been ruined. Even brand new the units were overpriced and WHERE THE FETH IS THE CHEAP PLASMA. I have high hopes for a new DA book making it possible to play a DA army with plasma for everyone that is not over powered: Good Luck. I'd also love to see an Iron Wing build with no infantry at all; or a 0-1 limit on infantry and the Razorback treated as a scoring troop light tank and maybe a unique PC Razor and Pred.
Anyways there is plenty of improvement to be had.

Ha hard mode is true

I hope they dont spam the plasma, as it isnt in the fluff anywhere (was a 3rd ed thing that allowed us to take plas cans in our tac unit to represent out higher tech.. not love of plasma)
So the superior tech avenue is where i want them to go, things like maybe conversion beamers in tac sqauds or plasmablasters on termies, also i want sternguard termies and (somehow) vanguard bikes, also let us take units of attack bikes and hopefully (never gonna happen) let us keep our cheap typhoons lol

Mat Ward..... Arg.... WHY... Well it should make Dark Angels players happy if he writes it like GK... If he writes it like Necrons, then it will be powerful but fair... if like GK overpowered

People will say no thats not true, but hmmm Adepticon this year most of the top people and teams to win... hmmm Grey knights

Formosa wrote: vanguard bikes

Simple.
1) Take stormtalon engine
2) Glue to back of bike
3) ????????????????????
4) PROFIT

20 things that I would love to see with the new Dark Angels Codex. Now some of these are pure Wish List, but some I think would make them more interesting.
1. Let the Deathwing Pick and Choose Wargear like Wolf Guard or Grey Knight Paladins.
2. Death Wing option of taking a Plasma Cannon as a heavy weapon.
3. Death Wing Command Squad with 2 Wounds
4. Make the Blades of Reason Special, like Relic Blades.
5. A Special Character that can make Veteran Squads a Troop Choice.
6. Just remove Belial’s Options and make his Sword of Silence Special
7. Sammael Retains his Land Speeder Option, but could take a Raven Wing Support Squadron as a Command Squad. Make Sammael’s Bike Command Squad, Jet Bikes.
8. An Interrogator Chaplin Character
9. An Interrogator Chaplin Dead
10. Make the Mortis Dead Official [With Twin Plasma Cannons of course]
11. Plasma Cannon Armed Land Raider
12. Plasma Cannon Armed Land Speeders
13. Plasma Cannon Armed Predator [With Plasma Cannon Sponsons]
14. Honor Guard with Artificer Armor
15. Jet Bike for the Tech-Marine
16. Veteran Squads can load out like Wolf Guard
17. Scout Squad have access to Plasma Weapon
18. Maybe a Scout Special Character that unlocks scouts
19. Jet Bike Squads
20. Vehicle Options for a Plasma Gun instead of a Storm Bolter.

why oh why does everyone think DA are the plasma chapter??? lol.. wait i know why.

anywho anpu

1: I would also like this
2: I want all heavy weapons as an option
3: I dont want 2 wound Com squad, thats GK thing (2 wounds no com sqaud), but i do want a proper comsqaud
4: Not sure how they could do this, as it just added extra VP and had a badly written rule that removed from play on a 6 (or not, not bringing up a rule dispute 2 editions old)
5: I want Vet sqauds removed entirely, DA dont have vet sqauds, they have DW
6: Noooooooooooooo!!!!! i want to keep the custom builds, but ia agree Sword o silence needs to be a +2str PW (not MC like sword o secrets)
7: Totally agree
8: almost a certainty
9: We need a dread Chaplain
10: fu... i mean hell yeah!
11: no dont want it, i want options for conversion beamers, las cans, a crusader varient with plasma guns or a pintle plasma cannon option rather than a mm
12: change this to plasma can attack bikes and i agree
13: we got this already, the FW plasma ex, maybe the sponsons too
14: BA honour guard or a specific DA one?
15: ha.. would be cool
16: no vet sqauds
17: didnt notice they didnt before, never use them
18: ? like vet sarge namaan?
19: just 1 jet bike unit to keep them unique
20: plasma pintle weapons ... ok why not

I do not play them but I think it's safe to say they're the coolest 40k army that there is.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Mat Ward..... Arg.... WHY... Well it should make Dark Angels players happy if he writes it like GK... If he writes it like Necrons, then it will be powerful but fair... if like GK overpowered

People will say no thats not true, but hmmm Adepticon this year most of the top people and teams to win... hmmm Grey knights

Or he could write it like Space Marines, which is solid, or Blood Angels as Space Marines +1. There are worse fates.

Timmy149 wrote:apparently mat ward is going to write the next codex...

No one knows that. No one knows when a DA codex will even come out.

angel of ecstasy wrote:I do not play them but I think it's safe to say they're the coolest 40k army that there is.

The guys wearing bathrobes are the coolest army in 40K?

Codex tyranids is a worse fate

"hey bra i hear you like most of your codex to suck.. so what i did was take 2 years to release the stuff thats good, so you had to stick to the naff stuff or buy 3rd party..... love GW"

My love of making the Dark Angels a Plasma SPAM army has to do with that every other Codex, but C: SM has been a 12"-24" or Close Combat Codex.
I would love to see the Dark Angels become a Long Range army with a few realy good Close Combat units.
Why Plasma?
IMOHO it is the best overall Multi-Tasker, the only thing it does not do well against is Tanks.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

angel of ecstasy wrote:I do not play them but I think it's safe to say they're the coolest 40k army that there is.

The guys wearing bathrobes are the coolest army in 40K?

Nothing wrong with being comfortable

Anpu42 wrote:My love of making the Dark Angels a Plasma SPAM army has to do with that every other Codex, but C: SM has been a 12"-24" or Close Combat Codex.
I would love to see the Dark Angels become a Long Range army with a few realy good Close Combat units.
Why Plasma?
IMOHO it is the best overall Multi-Tasker, the only thing it does not do well against is Tanks.

I'd love DA to be a very shooty MEQ while still having the option to do DW instead. Basically keeping the DW and RW builds viable, while opening up more viable builds using gun line or otherwise range based list. I don't want it to be overpowered to the point I can put down a single list that will be able to out CC and out shoot anything, but rather be able to bring a list that will specialize in one or the other while still fitting the fluff and being competitive.

Also the rifleman dread. Just getting it would be nice, but having it at slightly less points or slightly better, while not making it broken would be ideal. Not to the extent of say, long fangs, but something to represent that it was originally a Dark Angels pattern dread.

They were my first army (in the waning days of RT, long before I ever even played) and wow, they have suffered. Suffer, suffer, suffer.

From black armor with black banners, to green armored American Indians, to robe-wearing borderline traitors, from the Deathwing to the Ravenwing to the long-lost Iron Wing no one seems to have a clue what to do with them.

For me the DAs are exhibit A in my case that no one should play an established chapter lest you wake up one day and be told everything you know is a lie.

Aye, know that feeling KK, my beloved Thousand Sons Chapter that I had during the RT days, are now apparently a entirely different Chapter according to the Black Library Marine poster.

pwntallica wrote:Also the rifleman dread. Just getting it would be nice, but having it at slightly less points or slightly better, while not making it broken would be ideal. Not to the extent of say, long fangs, but something to represent that it was originally a Dark Angels pattern dread.

Evidently somebody doesn't remember 2nd Edition.

To be honest this is what I would really like to see. This is also looking at the fact that it is fluffy that they have lots of Pre-Heresy gear. I have included Plasma, Conversion Beamers and Auto-Cannons as they are supposed to be old and mysterious tech from the Horus Heresy. I do remind you this is a wish list.

Azrael: Leave basically alone, but give him accesses to an Honor Guard and add Eternal Warrior.

Belial: Replace his Wargear with Terminator Armor/Iron Halo 2+/4++, Sword of Silence, Storm Bolter.
Unlocks Deathwing to be either Elite or Troops
May take a Deathwing Command Squad
Sword of Silence: Mastercraft Relic Blade [Rending?]

Sammael: Leave his Wargear alone, Replace Power Armor with Artificer Armor?
Add Iron Halo to his Land Speeder?
The Raven Sword: MC Relic Blade
Takes Jet-Bike: Gets access to a Jet Bike Command Squad [1-5] or can join a Ravenwing Attack Squadron. Unlocks Ravenwing Assault Squadron as either Troops of Fast Attack.
Takes Land Speeder: Gets access to a Ravenwing Support Squadron. The “Apothecary” Land Speeder allows you to force a re-roll on Glancing and Penetrating Hits [Similar to a Venerable Dread] Unlocks Ravenwing Support Squadron as either Troops of Fast Attack.


Ezekiel: Leave his Wargear alone, add better Powers
Secrets Shield: Artificer Armor with a “Wolf Tail Talisman”
Deliver: MC Bolt Pistol works for me
Traitor’s Bane: Rending?
Book of Salvation: 12”r Stubborn
Access to an Honor Guard

Honor Guard [1-5]
Artificer Armor
Blade of Reason
Chapter Banner Bearer

Command Squad
Apothecary
Company Champion
Company Standard Bearer

Deathwing/Ravenwing Command Squad
5 Models
Mix and Match Weapon like Wolf Guard
Deathwing/Ravenwing Company Banner: Replaces Melee Weapon? [+1 Attack, 12”r Fearless]
DW/RW Apothecary: Replacing Ranged Weapon? [FNP]
DW/RW Champion: Blade of Reason/Storm Shield

Veteran Dreadnaught:
Upgradable to Chaplin [with Rosarius?...Extra Cost?]

Mortous Dreadnaught:
Upgradable to Venerable
Twin-Plasma Cannons
Twin-Conversion Beamers?

Techmarine
Buy Bike
Buy Terminator Armor

Veteran Squad: Make more like Sternguard/Vanguard
May take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport
Outfit like Wolf Guard
May Take Special Ammunition
May take up to two Special Weapons like Vanguard?
Add Auto-Cannons to the list
No Access to Jump Packs.
Sergeant may take Blade of Reason

Scout Squads
Add Sergeant Naaman as a choice Wargear: Melta-Bombs, Blade of Reason, {Combi-Melta?} [Make him an HQ Choice that unlocks Scouts as Elite/Troops?] Outflank 1-2 right/3-4 left/5-6 choice
May take Plasma Gun [or Plasma Cannon?]
Add Auto-Cannons to the list
May take Land Speeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport.

Tactical Squad:
Add Auto-Cannons to the list

Ravenwing Attack Squadron
Make sure the Land Speeder can join the Attack Squadron.
The Attack Bike can take a Plasma Cannon, Conversion Beamer or Auto-Cannon

Add a Ravenwing Attack Bike Squadron [1-5]
Can take Plasma Cannon [only 1?]
Conversion Beamer [only 1?]
Auto-Cannons [Only 1?]

Ravenwing Support Squadron
May take Auto-Cannons and Plasma-Cannons on Land Speeder Tornados
May Replace [any/all?] Land Speeders with Land Speeder Storms

Devastators
Add Auto-Cannons to the list
Add Conversion Beamers to the list?

Land Raider “Dark Angel”
Hull Mounted Twin-Linked Auto-Cannon?
Sponsons with Plasma Cannons [Twin-Linked]
Or
Hull Mounted Twin Linked Plasma-Cannon
Sponsons with Twin-Linked Auto-Cannon

Predator
Add Plasma-Cannons to the list
Add Conversion Beamers to the list?

Razorback
Plasma Cannons
Auto-Cannons

While were wishlisting, I'd love to see a twin-linked plasma cannon razorback.

English Assassin wrote:

pwntallica wrote:Also the rifleman dread. Just getting it would be nice, but having it at slightly less points or slightly better, while not making it broken would be ideal. Not to the extent of say, long fangs, but something to represent that it was originally a Dark Angels pattern dread.

Evidently somebody doesn't remember 2nd Edition.

I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't around for 2nd ed as I started playing on the tail end of 3rd.

20 things that I would love to see with the new Dark Angels Codex. Now some of these are pure Wish List, but some I think would make them more interesting.
1. Let the Deathwing Pick and Choose Wargear like Wolf Guard or Grey Knight Paladins. YES
2. Death Wing option of taking a Plasma Cannon as a heavy weapon. YES
3. Death Wing Command Squad with 2 Wounds NO not needed
4. Make the Blades of Reason Special, like Relic Blades. Characters only regular relic blades for honour guard.
5. A Special Character that can make Veteran Squads a Troop Choice. NO don't need this all though i would like our vets squads to access special ammo
6. Just remove Belial’s Options and make his Sword of Silence Special NO NO NO NO NO Leave my Belial alone unless you are giving him his Iron halo or a wrist mounted plasma blaster stormshield sword option.
7. Sammael Retains his Land Speeder Option, but could take a Raven Wing Support Squadron as a Command Squad. Make Sammael’s Bike Command Squad, Jet Bikes. SO cool I hope it happens
8. An Interrogator Chaplin Character Asmodai
9. An Interrogator Chaplin Dread Cool but I doubt it the chaplain dread is forgeworld.
10. Make the Mortis Dead Official [With Twin Plasma Cannons of course] Joy to the world the paladins are dead.
14. Honor Guard with Artificer Armor See earlier comment
15. Land Speeder for the Tech-Marine
11. Plasma Cannon Armed Land Raider YES
12. Plasma Cannon Armed Land Speeders YES
13. Plasma Cannon Armed Predator [With Plasma Cannon Sponsons] OHH BABY YES
16. Veteran Squads can load out like Wolf Guard No leave them as they are just give them access to special ammo
17. Scout Squad have access to Plasma Weapon No this is too far.
18. Maybe a Scout Special Character that unlocks scouts Again no, this belongs to the Raven Guard.
19. Jet Bike Command Squad
20. Vehicle Options for a Plasma Blaster instead of a Storm Bolter.