Stormtalon count as?

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**Steel Angel**

Hello. I play blood angels and I was wondering what you all think about using a stormtalon as a baal predator. I would think the rules for a baal would be perfect for it.

**BlapBlapBlap**

Steel Angel wrote:Hello. I play blood angels and I was wondering what you all think about using a stormtalon as a baal predator. I would think the rules for a baal would be perfect for it.

No, as the LoS and size differences are massive, if not game-breaking.

**rigeld2**

Is the Stormtalon that much bigger than a pred?

If you put the stormtalon down near the table (IE - off the tall skimmer stand) the LoS issues should be minimal

**AustonT**

Hey guys I play Blood Angels and I was wondering if I can use this new shiny model from someone else's army to represent a unit I have had a GW model for since 3rd Edition. It will not have the weapons in the right physical locations or have the same profile with line of sight both to and from the model because it was meant to be used in an entirely different fashion with an army I do not use.
TLDR Can I use a Hive Tyrant to represent Mephiston?

I feel like my answer is clear.

**BlapBlapBlap**

rigeld2 wrote:Is the Stormtalon that much bigger than a pred?

If you put the stormtalon down near the table (IE - off the tall skimmer stand) the LoS issues should be minimal

No, it's really quite compact compared to a Pred, and a helluva lot thinner.

**Steel Angel**

AustonT wrote:
Hey guys I play Blood Angels and I was wondering if I can use this new shiny model from someone else's army to represent a unit I have had a GW model for since 3rd Edition. It will not have the weapons in the right physical locations or have the same profile with line of sight both to and from the model because it was meant to be used in an entirely different fashion with an army I do not use.
TLDR Can I use a Hive Tyrant to represent Mephiston?

I feel like my answer is clear.

Please do not answer If you cannot do it in the civil and non condescending way.

**BlapBlapBlap**

Well, I'm pretty sure an obvious question deserves an obvious answer. No offense, but AustonT nailed what you were actually asking. You can't use entirely different models.

**Explosivo111**

BlapBlapBlap wrote:You can't use entirely different models.

Saying he 'can't' use entirely different models is technically untrue.
As long as your opponent agrees you can use whatever models you choose....so the real answer to this question would be

I would have a problem with it, but that's not to say others will so best to check at your FLGS or your regular opponents before committing to a purchase.

Explosivo111

[i]EDIT - Spelling and stuff[i]

**rigeld2**

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:Is the Stormtalon that much bigger than a pred?

If you put the stormtalon down near the table (IE - off the tall skimmer stand) the LoS issues should be minimal

No, it's really quite compact compared to a Pred, and a helluva lot thinner.

Fair enough. If it's a huge profile difference, I'd say no - don't use it.

**Emperor awfulness**

It sounds like consensus is that it's not a good match, but personally I wouldn't have a problem. If anything, the flyer profile is a size disadvantage and loses you cover bonuses.

**captain collius**

No way they are was too dissimilar models

**dajobe**

If i was playing against you, and you had the thing painted up nice and low to the ground and agreed that "if in doubt I can see it" then sure, i wouldnt really care. But if you were going to be stingy with your LOS, then I would sy GTFO, but I am pretty casual most of the time and just like to see cool things on the field.

**BlapBlapBlap**

Emperor awfulness wrote:It sounds like consensus is that it's not a good match, but personally I wouldn't have a problem. If anything, the flyer profile is a size disadvantage and loses you cover bonuses.

What? Have you seen how skinny that thing is next to a Pred?

Unless you're talking about on a Flying stand, which benefits LoS loads.

**AustonT**

Steel Angel wrote:
AustonT wrote:
Hey guys I play Blood Angels and I was wondering if I can use this new shiny model from someone else's army to represent a unit I have had a GW model for since 3rd Edition. It will not have the weapons in the right physical locations or have the same profile with line of sight both to and from the model because it was meant to be used in an entirely different fashion with an army I do not use.
TLDR Can I use a Hive Tyrant to represent Mephiston?

I feel like my answer is clear.

Please do not answer If you cannot do it in the civil and non condescending way.

That was civil. You asked a question with an obvious answer. You wouldn't have asked at all if it were in fact a plausible substitution, this thread is basically one step short of an outright troll. No, the Smurfs new flying guppy can not stand in for a Baal. I would not allow you to, nor would anyone that I know. You REALLY want to use it in your Blood Angels army: It's a Land Speeder. You're welcome.

**phoenixrisin**

it's bigger than a land speeder. if you take it off the stand i wouldn't care. i use tactical squads assault squads all the time and no one minds.

**Cheex**

I think you'd have better luck convincing people to simply use the Stormtalon rules in your BA. It's not more "legal" than using it to count as a Baal Pred, but at least the model matches the rules.

**Explosivo111**

The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

**BlapBlapBlap**

Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

That's even worse.

**dajobe**

yeah, yesterday i held my stormtalon up to a predator and they are at least similiar sized so if it was on a super low base i might be ok with it. But a stormraven is huge and i would not allow that proxy

**phoenixrisin**

Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

nvm, i read that wrong and realized my response made no sense.

**Explosivo111**

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

That's even worse.

Care to elaborate?

**dajobe**

Explosivo111 wrote:
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

That's even worse.

Care to elaborate?

i believe it is because the stormraven is MUCH larger than the talon, and would be would confer a massive LOS advantage to someone using this proxy

**BlapBlapBlap**

Consider the fact the Stormraven is actually slightly larger than a Land Raider, compared to the Stormtalon that's a bit smaller than a Predator, and a lot slimmer.

What do you think could arise from this huge difference?

**Robbietobbie**

AustonT wrote:
Hey guys I play Blood Angels and I was wondering if I can use this new shiny model from someone else's army to represent a unit I have had a GW model for since 3rd Edition. It will not have the weapons in the right physical locations or have the same profile with line of sight both to and from the model because it was meant to be used in an entirely different fashion with an army I do not use.
TLDR Can I use a Hive Tyrant to represent Mephiston?

I feel like my answer is clear.

I laughed at that one

But really, don't do it. If you like the model that much just get it so you can paint it up and display it somewhere but don't use it as a sub for a baal predator, it's pretty different and a stormtalon would probably look pretty silly on the ground

**Testify**

dajobe wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

That's even worse.

Care to elaborate?

i believe it is because the stormraven is MUCH larger than the talon, and would be would confer a massive LOS advantage to someone using this proxy

I would be more than happy for my enemy to use a massive model as an AV 11 flyer. I'd also be happy if he wanted to use a Monolith as a Rhino, etc etc.
But to the OP's point - no. Just no.

**DeathReaper**

I would not have a problem with you using it as a pred.

If it is a lot thinner, then your front armor is reduced, so it will be destroyed fairly quickly anyway.

**BlapBlapBlap**

DeathReaper wrote:I would not have a problem with you using it as a pred.

If it is a lot thinner, then your front armor is reduced, so it will be destroyed fairly quickly anyway.

How? It's a Predator...

**rigeld2**

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:I would not have a problem with you using it as a pred.

If it is a lot thinner, then your front armor is reduced, so it will be destroyed fairly quickly anyway.

How? It's a Predator...

The front armor arc is reduced, making getting to the side easier.
I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet that's what DR meant.

**dajobe**

Testify wrote:
dajobe wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Explosivo111 wrote:The most obvious solution I can think of if you're desperate to use the model is you using the StormTALON as a StormRAVEN which BA have access to IIRC

Can't see people having much of a problem with that

Explosivo111

That's even worse.

Care to elaborate?

i believe it is because the stormraven is MUCH larger than the talon, and would be would confer a massive LOS advantage to someone using this proxy

I would be more than happy for my enemy to use a massive model as an AV 11 flyer. I'd also be happy if he wanted to use a Monolith as a Rhino, etc etc.
But to the OP's point - no. Just no.

I would also be happy if my opponent used your proxies, but I believe he meant to use a stormtalon as a stormraven and not the other way around and he/she would benefit from that scenario , not me

**DeathReaper**

rigeld2 wrote:
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:I would not have a problem with you using it as a pred.

If it is a lot thinner, then your front armor is reduced, so it will be destroyed fairly quickly anyway.

How? It's a Predator...
The front armor arc is reduced, making getting to the side easier.
I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet that's what DR meant.

yes that is exactly what I meant.

The front armor is reduced, as in the front armor arc is reduced meaning the side arc's are bigger. Thus it would be easier to get a shot at the side armor. At AV 11 it is not tough to kill, or at least put out of commission until next turn