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So i've had a few games against my buddy's Kador and I can't seem to beat them.

Its the freakin assassins and the Jacks are no joke either.


For Jacks he either uses Spriggens or Juggernaughts.

He also has a big unit of regular grunts(the ones with blunderbusses and rockets) and a big unit of the Ninja Assassin guys. And a unit of Widowmakers.


I have the Harbinger or Feora as my Casters.

For Jacks I have a Guardian, Reckoner, Vanquisher, and a Dervish. I also have the Avatar coming in a couple of weeks.

I also have 2 Paladins of the Wall(and their special character), a full unit of Errents(with UA), a unit of Exemplar, Seneshel, Vassel, Reclaimer, small Choir, and a Heirophant.


I know I got the stuff, I just need some tactics.

I've thought of using the Avatar and Harbinger together, pop the Harbinger's feat and use Gaze of Menoth to force some of them to die. Or I take Feora instead for a more direct approach.

It's hard to deal with the Assassins as I can't hit them easily. The AoE attacks I have just don't seem like enough.

What list are you using ? how many points ?

My 35 point list was

Harbinger, Reckoner, Guardian, Reclaimer, Vassel, Seneschal, Knights Exemplar, 2 paladins, and Errants with UA.

No choir? With just about any Menoth build, the choir should be there, especially since you've got two heavies. You can replace the Reclaimer for a min Choir, especially as Harbinger has more then enough focus to hand out to them.

Are the Kazazy your main problem? You can deal w/ high defense units by using auto-hitting attacks. pFeora in particular should be walking death to those units both with her feat and with Burning Effigy on a convenient nearby jack. Heck, even Wall of Fire blocks off their straight charge lanes and forces them to go around.

Harbinger's feat will keep them off you for one round, although Gaze of Menoth doesn't force them to move, so they won't auto-die. They can simply stand still and look at you for the turn. Cataclysm auto-hits and can get more then one if they're bunched plus the range penalty isn't quite as bad for low armored units.

You might consider using a Vanquisher in place of the Guardian, and never leave home without choir if you have 2+ Jacks.

Vanquisher + Vassel = 2x 4" AOE's that will handle high def targets decently.

I suddenly feel really silly by not taking Choir.


One more question, is it true that a model without any weapons can't fight in melee? So my Vassel and Errant banner bearer are defenseless?

Grey Templar wrote:
One more question, is it true that a model without any weapons can't fight in melee? So my Vassel and Errant banner bearer are defenseless?

This is correct. No weapon means no attacks.

To be fair, a vassal can cast his attack spell if he gets caught in melee. He is unarmed but not entirely defenseless; can't charge or freestrike though.

That's kinda lame.

"I'm just gonna stand here and let you whack me cause I've got this purty banner and shield but no sword, herpadurp"

well whats he going to do? Choke the guy with the flag? Club him with the big unwieldy stick thing? KICK HIM!?

The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - Gaze of menoth + harby's feat wont "force some of them to die". They can opt to sacrifice their movement action and just stand there.

I am actually surprised that you have any issues with that force. You have a ton of aoe from those casters, esp feora. Honestly, as soon as you get a large section of his infantry in her ctrl radius, blow her feat and auto kill everything. Same with harbinger.

KingKodo wrote:
The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.

Considering that Errants are Fearless and the Banner does nothing for them, he's dying first to protect the weapon bearing members whether they shoot him or not.

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.

Considering that Errants are Fearless and the Banner does nothing for them, he's dying first to protect the weapon bearing members whether they shoot him or not.

The banner makes them immune to being targeted by spells.

Less of an issue against some Khadoran casters, to be sure.

malfred wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.

Considering that Errants are Fearless and the Banner does nothing for them, he's dying first to protect the weapon bearing members whether they shoot him or not.

The banner makes them immune to being targeted by spells.

Less of an issue against some Khadoran casters, to be sure.

Hasn't been an issue with anyone in my group, actually...

Platuan4th wrote:

malfred wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.

Considering that Errants are Fearless and the Banner does nothing for them, he's dying first to protect the weapon bearing members whether they shoot him or not.

The banner makes them immune to being targeted by spells.

Less of an issue against some Khadoran casters, to be sure.

Hasn't been an issue with anyone in my group, actually...

No Cryx?

malfred wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

malfred wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
The standard bearer has a tough enough job as it is being a bullet magnet, dont make his life more difficult.

Considering that Errants are Fearless and the Banner does nothing for them, he's dying first to protect the weapon bearing members whether they shoot him or not.

The banner makes them immune to being targeted by spells.

Less of an issue against some Khadoran casters, to be sure.

Hasn't been an issue with anyone in my group, actually...

No Cryx?

Not other than me, no.

Got 2 Swans, Khador, Menoth, and Circle. And none of them tend to use much offensive magic.

Thanks for the advice. I havn't tried Feora against Kador yet. Maybe thats the problem.

Another question. Can a Reclaimer give the Avatar focus? It just says it doesn't get given focus during the Focus allocation step of the turn, but seeing as how the Reclaimer gives Focus during his activation...

Could he potentially give the Avatar 3 additional focus on top of the Avatar's D3+1 focus for a potential powerhouse?

Avatar can't be allocated focus, and the action of the Reclaimer states it's an allocation.

Assuming no magical ranged weapons, no A&H, and not many other magical weapons (watch for doomreavers) Choir your jacks up with no non-magical shooting, have paladins move up and impervious wall, and profit. Of course, this will only last untill A&H show up if they haven't already.

Also, which Feora?

I have the regular Feora.

I could take Vilmon and 2 Paladins and just advance up the field trolling with Impervious Wall. Send them straight into the Assassins.


How is this list?

Harbinger

Guardian

Reckoner

Vanquisher

Dervish

Small Choir

Reclaimer

Vassel

Heirophant

Full Errents with UA

Vilmon

2 Paladins of the Wall


49 points total.