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So I want to play tyranids but no one in my group plays them and I only have experience playing SM and BA. What are the rules of thumb (claw?) to always keep in mind when playing nids? Are some units not as good as they look on paper and are some better? I want to make a CC focused army because it fits my play style and my idea of nids, but a shooting focused army seems more competitive.. Which should I choose? Where I play isn't that competitive, I just don't want to lose all the time.

Always make sure your synapse covers your army. This includes making sure your synapse creatures survive.

I'd think that tyranids would have trouble with armored skimmers and high AV vehicles with alot of dakka. Other people might be able to help more, but you'd have to let them know what armies you'll be facing.

I guess i'm outdated, because even the stats of the basic gaunts are different from what i remember.

To the best of my knowledge you want alot of genestealers for basic smashing as well as hive guard for transports and light vehicle killing. Obviously with some guants thrown in to add numbers. The carnifex is pretty over priced IIRC.


And yeah, keep everything in synapse

Ignore competitive for two reasons: one, you play with buddies (assuming they're good friends and not WAAC players), and two, 6th ed is going to make any advice given possibly obsolete.

I don't play nids, however I have played against them. My best friend is a nid player I turn to the most for a solid game, as he's learned how to defeat my guardsmen when others falter.

Here's a sample list of what he uses:

1x Winged Tyrant /w Old Adversary = 255
1x Tyranid Prime + Rending Claws = 80

2x Hive Guards = 100
2x Hive Guards = 100
2x Zoanthropes + Mysetic Spore = 160

3x Warriors + 2x Deathspitters + 1x Venom Cannon = 115
10x Termagant = 50
1x Tervigon + Cluster Spines + AG + TS + Catalyst = 195
5x Genestealesr + Broodlord + Scything Talons = 118

Heavy Support
Carnifex = 160
Carnifex = 160

Total: 1493

Strategy is simple enough; Carnifexes charge vehicles, Hive Tyrant uses them as cover until close enough to charge important things. Genestealers outflank, never infiltrate. Tervigon spawns Termagants used solely to harass any infantry or light tanks (S4 attacks on the assault mean they can glance rear 10). Hive Guard and Warriors perform rear guard duty, sniping with their attacks on any AV 12/13. Carnifexes are anti-AV14 in this list. Zoanthropes drop to give the Carnifexes some help; if they live, they shoot small AP 3 blasts left and right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some people will express that Carnifex is overpriced. I certainly agree, but T6/W4 is still tough as nuts, and they're distracting; if you don't kill em, they ram into your tanks and insta-pop them.

Ok, I'll write some things I learned with my nid army:

yes, carnifex is overpriced and he is slow. Most armies can either avoid or kill him before he does any damage.

Nid shooting is not very strong. so don't base an entire army in shooting.

Nid's have trouble with tanks at range, or tanks they can't catch up to (fast skimmers)
In CC, rending, or monstrous creatures do well enough at destroying vehicles.
At range your choices are limited.
Hive guard: great against anything A12 or less.
Zoanthropes: great against any armor (within 18"), but if a librarian with psychic hood or eldar with runes of warding is nearby, they will hardly get to shoot much.

Be prepared to remove models by the handful, I know it isn't fun to watch all your models die, but nids are a horde army, they are a horde of bugs, it is ok if a bunch die because there is a whole lot more to back them up.

Genestealers are great troops

Tervigons buffing Termaguants with AG and TS = threatening horde of guants.
The problem with Tervigons is that they give away free easy termaguant killpoints, they work great in obj games, but I don't like using them, many disagree with me.

Since your guys die easily, the best way to survive into combat = target saturation, If your whole army is in there face on the same turn, then hopefully they won't have enough bullets to save their lives before you assault
I do this with a Tyrant with Hive Commander upgrade and wings. DS or Outflank everybody on turn 2, right in there face.

If you find a lack of Synapse and need to plug it, a Trygon Prime is great to hold in reserve, and DS to fill in the synapse hole.
AG is great on a Trygon, that bump to I5 on the charge means he attacks before Meq

I can go on and on, but I'll stop for now. But if you have any specifice questions of units, post them, I'm happy to help.

YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST

BE

AGGRESSIVE

You must have that drive to get across the board, hopping from cover to cover.

You can not be slowed down for any reason even fear of losing units.

if you stagnate you die, you must construct your army in waves.
They must crash one after the other.

You must present many threats and have target saturation.

You must present multiple threats and not count on one unit to ever survive a game.

You must have repetition do not take one unit, take two.

You must say OM NOM NOM NOM with glee!

Happy Biomass hunting!

Thrawn2600 wrote:YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST

BE

AGGRESSIVE

You must have that drive to get across the board, hopping from cover to cover.

You can not be slowed down for any reason even fear of losing units.

if you stagnate you die, you must construct your army in waves.
They must crash one after the other.

You must present many threats and have target saturation.

You must present multiple threats and not count on one unit to ever survive a game.

You must have repetition do not take one unit, take two.

You must say OM NOM NOM NOM with glee!

Happy Biomass hunting!

This guy has got it right!
I sometimes just ignore armor from a distance and concentrate on getting into combat with whatever. Upclose those Rending claws or monstrous creatures are good enough.

Secon dor maybe i am the third but you must be supper aggersive.

You must use each unit for a purpose, know also the purpose of some is only to die so that others can wreck face.

Use them as you think they woul dtruly be. This is knda with the be aggressive but just as you play them keep that in Mind.

Alot of people underestimate them and this is a huge boon.

They can be a really mean army if you play them alot so you can learn their play style as i think IMHO That they have a play style unlike any other army

Thrawn2600 wrote:YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST

BE

AGGRESSIVE

Step 1) Take 6-9 Hive Guard

Step 2) Take lots of Genestealers

Step 3) CHARGE

Insert Tevigons, Termagants, and various MC's to taste.

If we're talking 5th ed, don't take Warriors. Yes they look cool, yes they are a neat unit, but there's so many things in the game that have access to Str 8 they're just bugs on a windshield.

For the love of god never take Carnifex-es, Shrikes, or Lictors. Sadly Hormagants are also pretty bad.

Shooting Tyranids are pretty bad. The only thing you'll want to take that shoots are your anti-tank options.

Good Tyranid armies are also not horde armies. Good tyranid armies are Hive Guard, tons of Genestealers (They're as expensive as space marines), and some monstrous creatures. You might have a tervigon or two and some gants, but that hardly qualifies as horde.

Make sure you play on a board with cover and use ot, otherwise your Monstrous Creatures will get destroyed. Make sure not to allow your big bugs to get multi assaulted with little bugs like Termagants. Your opponent with just kill the Gants, and then stack fearless wound and kill your Terivgon through combat resolution alone.

Make sure you're really wary of assaulting units in terrain with 'Stealers. They're quite squishy so when they aren't striking first they can actually be a meh CC unit. Yes they have move through cover, no this doesn't make them good at asaulting things on cover. Yes, that makes absolutely no sense.

Generally speaking outflanking Stealers is a bad idea. You're much better off infiltrating them. You might be able to outflank 1-2 squads just to force your opponent to concentrate his stuff in the middle.

If you run up against a mechanized shooty Dark Eldar army, pray to the dice gods. You're going to need their help.

So if I understand what your saying I should be aggressive, B - E aggressive.

Joking aside, I think I understand now that tyranids are not a race to sit and wait for the enemy to come to them. I should be out of the gate in force and swarm over them in a tide of bugs, starship troopers/starcraft Zerg style.

I'll start thinking of a list to use. I still want to focus more on melee but I guess hive guards are just too good to pass up.

I am building a new Tyrannid army myself, I haven't played any games but I am using Hulksmash's Tyranid Tactica as a guide to choices:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page


My rough composition for a 1500 pt army is:


HQ
Flying Tyrant
Tervigon

Elite
6 Hive Guard

Troops:
2 x 10 Termagants
Tervigon

Heavy Support
1 Tyrannofex

Fast Attack
2 x 10 gargoyles




If you're going to run Tervigons, you'll need extra Termagants... I bought 60 when my army list only has 20 listed. The extra 40 are for spawning

have fun.

Rules of the Thumb
1.You can't make a list without Hive Guard. They are that good and you don't get ranged AV in many other places.
2. You will always have decent CC but it dont count for zit if you can't take out vehicles
3. Synapse is important.
4. Onion formation is what Tyranids are all about. Little gribbles protecting the large ones. To play them well (in 5th) you had to master this
5. In general you can't beat Dark Eldar who play sensibly

The most competitive build they can produce revolves round taking mid field and holding it. Lots of Hive Guard take out vehicles, 2-3Tervigons provide FNP and Gaunt screens and some other assault unit/s provide counter attack threats and early pressure until the bulk reaches the middle of the table.
Another decent list (though not as good as a midfield control) is a null deployment list. All the army starts in reserve and Alpha Strikes on it's way in. Hive Commander is a must and the elite slot is probably Hive Guard, Zoanthropes in a spod and Ymgarls. The rest should be lots of Genestealers and possibly a Trygon or 2

Basically what I did when I played nids (one of my favorite armies) is this.

I ran lots of hormaguants with tox sac and ad glands, this gives them STR 4 on charge + if str = T with poison its reroll to wound.

Lots of hormies, I would put them on the table and say "Ok guys, run forward, hit stuff, and make daddy proud."

Genestealers are also your friend. Always outflank...

Carnifex's are overpriced now, they use to be good in 4th but alas..

Weakness of nids is the head, If people kill your synapse creatues, you will falter.

Hive guard are solid units. Tyrant guard are sometimes necessary to keep tyrants alive, give them lash whips.

I infiltrate my genestealers. When I say I have 40 stealers outflanking. people don't go near the board edge. though that is an advantage in it's own right.

TedNugent wrote:

Thrawn2600 wrote:YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST BE AGGRESSIVE

YOU MUST

BE

AGGRESSIVE

I was going to do that, but figured i'd get in trouble.

I'm typing this out on my phone so please excuse the errors.
I have come up with two lists using the suggestions from everyone. One looks more fun to play but not as competitive and the other looks more standard Tyranid competitive style.

CC swarm
HQ- tyrant with wings, command, 2 scything talons

Elite
3 lictors
2 zoanthropes

Troop
8 genestealers with broodlord and all with toxin
24 hormagaunts with ts and ag
24 hormagaunts with ts and ag

Heavy
Trygon prime

More competitive
HQ
Tyrant with 2 tl brainleech
1 tyrant guard

Elite
3 hive guard
3 hive guard
2 zoanthrope

Troop
12 termagaunts with ts and ag
12 termagaunts with ts and ag
tervigon with ts and ag
tervigon with ts and ag

Heavy
trygon prime

If you really want to use lictors, just use one Deathleaper. He can reduce LD on one enemy model (which should always be the psyker, if no psyker, than the SM captain with rites of battle)
Reducing the LD on a psyker will cripple his ability to use any powers, and his hood will almost always fail.
A Deathleaper is a great way of ensuring that no psychic hood will stop your Zoanthropes.

for 1st list, only use one squad of Hormaguants (outflank with tyrant's HC upgrade)
and two squads of Genestealers (outflank or infiltrate)

Moronic Nonsense wrote:If you really want to use lictors, just use one Deathleaper. He can reduce LD on one enemy model (which should always be the psyker, if no psyker, than the SM captain with rites of battle)
Reducing the LD on a psyker will cripple his ability to use any powers, and his hood will almost always fail.
A Deathleaper is a great way of ensuring that no psychic hood will stop your Zoanthropes.

If you go this route, try to go second.
The psychic LD penalty applies even if its off table.
When it comes from reserves place it on the table at the beginning of the movement phase.
When its movement phase ends, place it back in reserve.
Repeat those last two (remember they now occur automatically, no reserve roll needed) until the last turn; then place it within contesting range of an objective you do not control.

Invincible Deathleaper, Tyranid king of objective games!



Heck, even if you go first or miss a random game length guess, it can be hard to kill that thing in one round.

OK, if I go with a deathleaper and swap a group of hormagaunts for another 8 genestealers and broodlord I will have a little over 100 points left in list 1. I'm thinking I could go with another zoanthrope, a group of gargoyles, or add some more genestealers to the two groups.

Also, should I always have a broodlord with my genestealers? If I drop the broodlords I could add another group of genestealers.

They die. A lot.

shamroll wrote:OK, if I go with a deathleaper and swap a group of hormagaunts for another 8 genestealers and broodlord I will have a little over 100 points left in list 1. I'm thinking I could go with another zoanthrope, a group of gargoyles, or add some more genestealers to the two groups. I could also add in 2 hive guards.

Also, should I always have a broodlord with my genestealers? If I drop the broodlords I could add another group of genestealers.

I could also add 2 hive guard but only 2 doesn't seem very effective.

shamroll wrote:
Elite
3 hive guard
3 hive guard
2 zoanthrope

Troop
12 termagaunts with ts and ag
12 termagaunts with ts and ag
tervigon with ts and ag
tervigon with ts and ag

Heavy
trygon prime

- Your termagants don't need ts and ag as long as they're near the tervigon. You can save some points by removing them. Read the Tervigon rules.

- i think "subpar" units such as hormogaunts, harpies and pyrovores can be used but need to have lists built aroudn them that abuse their strengths. Hormagaunts, for example, are not as good at genestealers in most cc situations, except when volume beats killing power, so you need to know when they will be better before including them in your list

TedNugent wrote:

Win. Win win win! Better than the original

Strange, no ones mentioned, Ymgarl Genestealers yet! I love them, nothing makes a camping army more jumpy that knowing that they might pop out from anywhere. Combine that with outflanking genestealers and you can reach almost any part of the board for assaults in your own time. Or at the very least, make your opponent think you can!

That being said, they compete for slots with hive guards which are equally important! I've started getting spanked now by AV 14 from taking too many Ymgarls and not enough Hive Guard.

There's nothing more undignified that having to run away from a Land Raider while you run down the turn clock!

Jihadnik wrote:Strange, no ones mentioned, Ymgarl Genestealers yet! I love them, nothing makes a camping army more jumpy that knowing that they might pop out from anywhere. Combine that with outflanking genestealers and you can reach almost any part of the board for assaults in your own time. Or at the very least, make your opponent think you can!

That being said, they compete for slots with hive guards which are equally important! I've started getting spanked now by AV 14 from taking too many Ymgarls and not enough Hive Guard.

There's nothing more undignified that having to run away from a Land Raider while you run down the turn clock!

Hive Guard won't help against AV14. Need Zoans or MCs in hth to break AV14.

Carnage43 wrote:

Jihadnik wrote:Strange, no ones mentioned, Ymgarl Genestealers yet! I love them, nothing makes a camping army more jumpy that knowing that they might pop out from anywhere. Combine that with outflanking genestealers and you can reach almost any part of the board for assaults in your own time. Or at the very least, make your opponent think you can!

That being said, they compete for slots with hive guards which are equally important! I've started getting spanked now by AV 14 from taking too many Ymgarls and not enough Hive Guard.

There's nothing more undignified that having to run away from a Land Raider while you run down the turn clock!

Hive Guard won't help against AV14. Need Zoans or MCs in hth to break AV14.

You can immobilize/Weapon Destroy Land Raiders with Hive Guard.

rigeld2 wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

Jihadnik wrote:Strange, no ones mentioned, Ymgarl Genestealers yet! I love them, nothing makes a camping army more jumpy that knowing that they might pop out from anywhere. Combine that with outflanking genestealers and you can reach almost any part of the board for assaults in your own time. Or at the very least, make your opponent think you can!

That being said, they compete for slots with hive guards which are equally important! I've started getting spanked now by AV 14 from taking too many Ymgarls and not enough Hive Guard.

There's nothing more undignified that having to run away from a Land Raider while you run down the turn clock!

Hive Guard won't help against AV14. Need Zoans or MCs in hth to break AV14.

You can immobilize/Weapon Destroy Land Raiders with Hive Guard.

It's not impossible, it's just incredibly inefficient. Takes an average of 27 HG shots (so 14 hive firing, or the max 9 HG over multiple turns) to score a single weapon destroyed/immob. It's like using krak missiles against Land Raiders, there are almost always better uses for the firepower.

Right - but there's a difference between "won't help" and "not efficient".

I got full points on a tourny game because the secondary objective was to knock all units down to half (or at least one damage result on a vehicle).
My AT was Hive Guards and a Hive Tyrant. The Hive Tyrant died the first round because I'm a moron, so my I relied on my Hive Guard to glance the Raider and my 8 million deathspitters to pen/glance the rhino and Drop Pod my opponent had.

rigeld2 wrote: You can immobilize/Weapon Destroy Land Raiders with Hive Guard.

Which won't do squat. A LandRaider has minimum of 3 guns. It is just bristleing with firepower, even if you get a couple of weapon destroyed.
The only way to deal with Land Raiders or a Monolith or anything else that is A14 is ignore it and kill everything else, send a Monstrsous creature at it, or Zoanthropes

In your scenario, you just got lucky. You should have protected your MC or brought another MC