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So a bit ago I was assembling some space marine scout bikers and was figuring out what to put on them. Lots of options: bolt pistols, shotguns, CCW, or just two hands on the bike. According to the codex, each biker is equipped with a pistol and a shotgun (no extra CCW). Now for scouts on foot, there is some debate between if a BP/CCW is better then a shotgun, but on the bikes, you aren't getting the extra attack because you don't have the extra weapon, just the pistol. I guess if you were shooting at someone who gets to re-roll a 5+ armor save, the one S4 shot from the BP at AP 5 might be better then the 2x S4 AP- you get from the shotgun. But for the most part, you are going to be shooting shotguns over bolt pistols every time.

But it gets worse...

The bikes they are riding have twin-linked bolters. And bikes are relentless. So there is no reason ever to be firing the marines personal weapons. Even if you replace the bolters on the bikes with grenade launchers, those are just better. Things might change in 6th, but for now, scouts are dragging a lot of useless junk around with them.

Are there any other units out there who have gear that is not just sub-par, but outright useless?

Thats basically it. The pistol and shotgun are essentially worthless.

Assault weapons make have some drastic changes to how they work so we will see how things pan out.


Scout Bikers are basically taken for the Locator Beacons in Deep Strike lists. Infiltrate them in and drop all your Pods in on turn 1 with 100% accuracy.

Yes any "Gun" on a Psyker

Anpu42 wrote:Yes any "Gun" on a Psyker

You assume all psykers have access to psychic shooting attacks. As for the Shotguns on Scout bikers, it's simply because the original models came with such an option and is primarily there for WYSIWYG sticklers.

Not true. Not all psykers use PSAs and sometimes you just want to use your gun(it won't blow your brains out your ears)


One piece of useless wargear is the option to purchase Digitel Weapons for Brotherhood Champions. Their sword allows them to reroll everything already and you can't reroll a reroll.

I take this to mean that you will be able to reroll rerolls in 6th.

I have never fired Njal Bolt Pistol [or any Psyker for that fact] since 2nd Edition. The only one I could see carring a Special Weapon is a BA Librarian with an Infurnus Pistol.

Anpu42 wrote:I have never fired Njal Bolt Pistol [or any Psyker for that fact] since 2nd Edition. The only one I could see carring a Special Weapon is a BA Librarian with an Infurnus Pistol.

The point was that not all psykers have access to a psychic shooting attack...

The Tau Command & Control Node is used for Target Priority test. What are those again?....lol....

acekevin8412 wrote:The Tau Command & Control Node is used for Target Priority test. What are those again?....lol....

They were important during the edition the book was written...

I think he means useless things that have NEVER had a use, not outdated gear from an ancient book


Von Chogg

acekevin8412 wrote:The Tau Command & Control Node is used for Target Priority test. What are those again?....lol....

The things Black Templars have to pass before shooting because GW hate us.

Flamers for Crisis suits. Does anyone really use them outside of being a cheap hardpoint stop-gap for Twin-Missile Suits?

With the Tau's currently place in power and playability, flamers are the outright most useless weapon to dedicate a Crisis suit to.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Flamers for Crisis suits. Does anyone really use them outside of being a cheap hardpoint stop-gap for Twin-Missile Suits?

With the Tau's currently place in power and playability, flamers are the outright most useless weapon to dedicate a Crisis suit to.

Well, that's just, like your opinion man.

Grimtuff wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Flamers for Crisis suits. Does anyone really use them outside of being a cheap hardpoint stop-gap for Twin-Missile Suits?

With the Tau's currently place in power and playability, flamers are the outright most useless weapon to dedicate a Crisis suit to.

Well, that's just, like your opinion man.

Is it wise to prep a crisis suit for assault-range combat?

I've seen flamers used successfully on Suits. In a Farsight bomb list.


Farsight and 7 suits with twin-linked flamers and shield drones. Frys whatever it hits.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Flamers for Crisis suits. Does anyone really use them outside of being a cheap hardpoint stop-gap for Twin-Missile Suits?

With the Tau's currently place in power and playability, flamers are the outright most useless weapon to dedicate a Crisis suit to.

Well, that's just, like your opinion man.

Is it wise to prep a crisis suit for assault-range combat?

Well, if you give them fusion blasters, it may be wise to add in a flamer or two. Just in case you play against a foot army or you killed the tanks already and there's nothing left to shoot at. Or if you want to be a shoot a tank with the blaster and flamer and flame the unit standing next to the tank?

Otherwise, I'd agree, it's pretty worthless.

For me, it's Hunter-Killer missiles. Why pay 10pts for something that is not only one-use, but will also probably miss? And if I need AT that bad, my list probably has other major problems.

Oh you should do some research on HK missiles before discounting them. There was a really interesting thread about them last week here on Dakka (general discussion or tactics). Can't search for it atm, but it was definitely an eye opener.

Grey Templar wrote:Not true. Not all psykers use PSAs and sometimes you just want to use your gun(it won't blow your brains out your ears)

Unless it's a plasma gun, of course.

I am not so much suggesting them, but as this seems to be the thread for it.. so I have to ponder.
Stranglewebs, is there any point to them, and what is point of rolling against the targets strength. I can't think of any unit where strength is lower apart from Orks, Nurgle units and bikes.

So v's Marines, its an anti bike weapon using the flamer template, at Str 2, okay it pins, but by the time you are that close that seems a bloody risky way to try and pin a squad.

It just seems a bizarre little weapon, and not worth the upgrade cost.

Grey Templar wrote:I've seen flamers used successfully on Suits. In a Farsight bomb list.

Indeed, "Learn to shorten your reach!" as the man himself says.

Hunter Killer Missile can be useful in mass. On turn you dump 6-10 of them into the Valkurie Squadron filled up with Melta-Vets. Even if don’t wreck them you may prevent them from moving or firing. They are also very handy for absorbing a hit on transports. How may Rhinos have you seen Destroyed by two Weapon hits.
They also are great vs. Nids, remember the ID any model with a T4 or less.

Extra Armor: Currently I have not been taking it because all it does it make it so you can’t shoot instead of cant move or shoot. Unless it’s a Land Raider, Stormraven or you are doing an “Insert Transport Here” Rush; any Glancing or Penetrating Hit will shut down the vehicle for a turn. I have shut down Vindicators with plasma weapon for entire games.

Spike rifles and Stranglewebs on Gaunts are terrible, and IIRC cost points over superior weapon options. Pinning almost never works anyway on top of that.

I would have to say the option for a bolter on a Space Marine captain or similar character. Why would you be standing and rapid firing with a close combat character? Even so, 1-2 S4 AP5 shots aren't going to scare anybody.

Now we all know the most awsome weapon is the Spinefist on Ripper swarms. 6 full troop slots of em

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Flamers for Crisis suits. Does anyone really use them outside of being a cheap hardpoint stop-gap for Twin-Missile Suits?

With the Tau's currently place in power and playability, flamers are the outright most useless weapon to dedicate a Crisis suit to.

Well, that's just, like your opinion man.

Is it wise to prep a crisis suit for assault-range combat?

Well, if you give them fusion blasters, it may be wise to add in a flamer or two. Just in case you play against a foot army or you killed the tanks already and there's nothing left to shoot at. Or if you want to be a shoot a tank with the blaster and flamer and flame the unit standing next to the tank?

Otherwise, I'd agree, it's pretty worthless.

For me, it's Hunter-Killer missiles. Why pay 10pts for something that is not only one-use, but will also probably miss? And if I need AT that bad, my list probably has other major problems.

Grimtuff wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I've seen flamers used successfully on Suits. In a Farsight bomb list.

Indeed, "Learn to shorten your reach!" as the man himself says.

Points taken

In further contribution to the thread, would Seeker missiles in a list without markerlights count? Or is that mentioning too situational?

Shredders in the DE Codex.

90% of our Arcane Wargear is awful too.

I'd kill for some stuff that gave us Psychic Defense or was just... better than what we have.

^^ This man speaks the troof.

I would have to say the option for a bolter on a Space Marine captain or similar character. Why would you be standing and rapid firing with a close combat character? Even so, 1-2 S4 AP5 shots aren't going to scare anybod

You could kit them for ranged, give them hellfire rounds and those shots are at 2+ wounding at least.

Lokas wrote:Shredders in the DE Codex.

90% of our Arcane Wargear is awful too.

I'd kill for some stuff that gave us Psychic Defense or was just... better than what we have.

As the man said. Like a Stinger Pistol.......why.....just why? -_-
Just give me some psychic defense! D: ...........besides Lady Malys. lol

Not totally useless, but certainly not an appealing option for me is the Eldar Starcannon. It's more points, same strength and fewer shots than the scatter laser. It's only saving grace is it's low ap, but in a world of 4+ cover saves, getting one shot (maybe 2) through only for it to be saved 50% of the time isn't all that great these days. For the most part I'd rather force more saves with the scatter lasers for less points.

A lasblaster on an Eldar Autarch. A lasblaster is essentially a glorified Lasgun, which means it's Assault 2 and AP 5. It costs 1 point. Why would you like to take this when you can take a Death Spinner or a Fusion Gun? Firing his basic Shuriken Pistol will most certainly cause more damage than a pathetic Lasblaster.

The flak armor on a GK Inquisitorial Crusader.

Why the hell would you use the 5+ armor when your lugging around a SS anyways?