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Was playing in a tournament today and wondered if I used my Markerlights/seeker missiles (on a Skyray) correct in this case.

I was nearing the end of my turn and I noticed that I had markerlight still on a opponents dreadnaught. The only unit not to have fired as of yet was a group of firewarriors about 25” away that had moved toward an objective that turn. Now I know that the rifles wouldn’t have hurt it but a seeker missile would.

I chose to shoot my warriors at the dread and shoot a missile using the markerlight from the skyray. Was this legal?
Anyway I promptly rolled a “1” and missed so it really wasn’t a game changer if it wasn’t.

So can you call in skyray support by shooting at the target even though your out of range of your normal weapons?

Edited for hasty posting: No, if your firewarriors were out of range, then they would not have been able to expend the markerlight counter by being 'subsequently firing Tau...firing at the marked unit'. Ignore what I initially said (I edited it out to avoid confusion).

Markerlights are Heavy 1. The unit/model that fires the Markerlight cannot move that player turn. If your Fire Warriors had been the unit that fired the Markerlight, then them firing at the dread would have been illegal, as they must Rapid Fire if they move.

If the Fire Warriors used that Markerlight to gain BS, it was illegal.

However, if they did not move or use the Marklight to gain BS against the Dread, then it was fine. You can call in a Seeker Missile from any vehicle that has one on any Markerlighted model/unit regardless of range or Line of Sight.

The firewarriors did not fire the markerlight. A skyray had lit it up earlier in the turn.

Hmmmm.. upon further reading.. I came up with my reasoning why they can still call the seeker missle..

Check range pg17
Any model that is found to be out of range of all of
the models he can see in the target unit misses
automatically – his shots simply do not reach.


So yes. they can still shoot at something and would have been able to expend the markerlight counters by being 'subsequently firing Tau at the target..

They are firing even if they are all out of range, they still satisfy the 'subsequently firing Tau' requirment.

Am I missing something??

They were firing, so you can expend the token.

So does that mean an out of range rhino can light up the enemy with a searchlight?

Camarodragon wrote:The firewarriors did not fire the markerlight. A skyray had lit it up earlier in the turn.

Hmmmm.. upon further reading.. I came up with my reasoning why they can still call the seeker missle..

Check range pg17
Any model that is found to be out of range of all of
the models he can see in the target unit misses
automatically – his shots simply do not reach.


So yes. they can still shoot at something and would have been able to expend the markerlight counters by being 'subsequently firing Tau at the target..

They are firing even if they are all out of range, they still satisfy the 'subsequently firing Tau' requirment.

Am I missing something??

There seems to be some confusion here. If an enemy unit has a markerlight hit on it, then that markerlight counter can be expended to fire a seeker missile from a vehicle carrying one, full stop. Whether or not some firewarriors shoot or not is completely irrelevant.

yakface wrote:There seems to be some confusion here. If an enemy unit has a markerlight hit on it, then that markerlight counter can be expended to fire a seeker missile from a vehicle carrying one, full stop. Whether or not some firewarriors shoot or not is completely irrelevant.

I certainly agree that is how it should be played, but the way the Tau codex is written, it is not the case.

"Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..."

A markerlight can be used to do any of it's abilities, firing seeker missiles means you use a markerlight per missile, however you can fire the seeker missile any time really, following the normal rules for shooting.

motyak wrote:So does that mean an out of range rhino can light up the enemy with a searchlight?

Sure. If you roll high enough.

You played it correctly, units firing at a marked unit do not HAVE to expend a token, and if a unit is marked, you can fire a seeker missile at it.

Drunkspleen wrote:

yakface wrote:There seems to be some confusion here. If an enemy unit has a markerlight hit on it, then that markerlight counter can be expended to fire a seeker missile from a vehicle carrying one, full stop. Whether or not some firewarriors shoot or not is completely irrelevant.

I certainly agree that is how it should be played, but the way the Tau codex is written, it is not the case.

"Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..."

Yes, and in the case of seeker missiles, that means the seeker missile is being subsequently fired by expending a markerlight hit.

The rules in the Seeker missile section are quite explicit...the missiles may ALWAYS be fired, regardless of anything else the vehicle has done. So all you ever need to do to launch a seeker missile is to expend a markerlight hit to do so.

I'm really confused as to what the problem is.

There was a markerlight token on a dread.
Expended the token to fire a seeker missile.
"Can I do that?"
"why would you think you could fire a seeker missile with a markerlight?"
"The codex says I can."
And this went on for more than one reply.

What yakface said.

yakface wrote:Yes, and in the case of seeker missiles, that means the seeker missile is being subsequently fired by expending a markerlight hit.

The rules in the Seeker missile section are quite explicit...the missiles may ALWAYS be fired, regardless of anything else the vehicle has done. So all you ever need to do to launch a seeker missile is to expend a markerlight hit to do so.

It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation though, you are claiming to be eligible to spend a token and fire a seeker missile by virtue of the fact that you are firing the seeker missile, which can only be fired in spending the token.

yakface wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:

yakface wrote:There seems to be some confusion here. If an enemy unit has a markerlight hit on it, then that markerlight counter can be expended to fire a seeker missile from a vehicle carrying one, full stop. Whether or not some firewarriors shoot or not is completely irrelevant.

I certainly agree that is how it should be played, but the way the Tau codex is written, it is not the case.

"Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..."

Yes, and in the case of seeker missiles, that means the seeker missile is being subsequently fired by expending a markerlight hit.

The rules in the Seeker missile section are quite explicit...the missiles may ALWAYS be fired, regardless of anything else the vehicle has done. So all you ever need to do to launch a seeker missile is to expend a markerlight hit to do so.

so.... let me get this right...

Your saying that after everyone has shot in my army.... Skyray, fire warriors, everybody..... If I still have markerlight tokens out on the table I can still fire off missles off the Skyray even without following the "Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..." Part of it.????? if so ive been playing it wrong for years....


EDIT; reading it yet again....

"The seekers may ALWAYS be fired (Im assuming this is what you are refering to) each at different targets, regardless of movement or if it has fired other weapons. They may also fired if the vehicle is stunned." parphrased

Prior to that, it speaks of how seeker missles are requested in the marker light rules, and the process being remote and responding only to markerlight users. Which brings it back to "Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..." in the markerlight rules.

Im not seeing how you can conclude "if a marker token is on the unit it can be shot with a seeker" without having a unit "request" it..

Well, on the bright side, you're bound to get a new Codex soon, right? (hint: no, that's not right.)

Camarodragon wrote:so.... let me get this right...

Your saying that after everyone has shot in my army.... Skyray, fire warriors, everybody..... If I still have markerlight tokens out on the table I can still fire off missles off the Skyray even without following the "Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..." Part of it.????? if so ive been playing it wrong for years....


EDIT; reading it yet again....

"The seekers may ALWAYS be fired (Im assuming this is what you are refering to) each at different targets, regardless of movement or if it has fired other weapons. They may also fired if the vehicle is stunned." parphrased

Prior to that, it speaks of how seeker missles are requested in the marker light rules, and the process being remote and responding only to markerlight users. Which brings it back to "Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau... firing at the 'marked' unit..." in the markerlight rules.

Im not seeing how you can conclude "if a marker token is on the unit it can be shot with a seeker" without having a unit "request" it..

Read the rules for Seeker Missiles again. They say (pg 31):

"Any model equipped with a marker light may request a seeker missile salvo as detailed in the marker light rules."

and later:

"Ordinarily, the vehicle has no control over them and cannot launch them itself. The mechanism is remote and responds only to marker light users."


Now, if you go look at the rules for Markerlights, guess what? You see no actual rules for 'model[s] equipped with a markerlight requesting a seeker missile salvo.'

As you say, the rules only allow for subsequently firing units to expend markerlight tokens...however the rules for seeker missiles explicitly state that only models equipped with a markerlight can call a markerlight salvo.

So if you're going to play with that interpretation (that only subsequent firing units can call seeker missiles in), then that would only be allowable if some model in the subsequent firing unit is equipped with a markerlight.


The reality is that the vehicle equipped with a seeker missile is always allowed to fire the seeker missile, even if it has already fired. So this unit is always a 'subsequent firing unit', even though it isn't actually able to launch the missile without expending a markerlight counter to do so.

So you get to the end of you shooting phase, having fired everything but you still have a seeker missile left on a vehicle and at least one markerlight hit on an enemy unit. Since the rules allow a Seeker Missile to be fired even if the vehicle has previously fired therefore you choose to fire the vehicle again, making it a subsequently firing unit which can then expend the markerlight hit to launch the Seeker Missile.

I get that there is a bit of the chicken vs. the egg situation going on here because the rules are split between the markerlight section and the seeker missile section and they don't vibe perfectly together, but honestly that's the way that its been played since the original Tau codex was released (it was actually much more clear in the old codex that markerlight hits could just be used at anytime to launch a seeker missile).

Yes you can always fire a seeker missile, it's considered it's own when it comes to shooting.

You can have a piranha with two seeker missile flat out across the side of the board, fire everything in your army and if you still happen to have 2 markerlights on some rhinos, fire both missiles on the said rhinos.