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hey there

so are humans the same in the 40k universe as we are today?

are imperial guard at all stronger than regular men?

space marines obviously are but how much so? how much taller?

are certain space marines bigger? chapter masters?

what about the primarchs?

what about the adeptus *guys that guard the emproer*

Humans will have massive variation.

Space Marines are between 7-8ft(allowing for individual variation)

Primarchs were said to be to Space Marines what Space Marines were to a normal human, so probably 9-10ft.

Custodes are around the same size as Space Marines, but they are totally different. They are grown in test tubes and completely artificial creations, ultimate bodyguards.

thanks!
i was sure space marines were atleast 10 ft tall though

i like your message about grey knights... i remeber when justicars were 50 points a model too.

10ft is BL overexaggeration.

Keep in mind that measurements may not be the same. Ft on one planet(read authors perspective) may not be the same as Ft on another planet.

well. there's this


along with this article on astartes physiology

all credited to Philip Sibbering, games workshop, etc, etc, bla bla, IP-law, more along that line, so on, so forth.

Space Marines average out at seven feet tall and about seven hundred pounds. Custodians are only slightly bigger, if at all.

The only listed height for a Primarch is three meters, aka seven feet. The Primarch in question being the Lion. Leman Russ, Ferrus Manus, Angron, and of course Magnus the Red would all be taller.

What is the source of Primarchs being taller than "normal" Marines, anyways? Is that just BL author interpretation, too, or were there actually any comments in the studio material? I honestly do not know, but cannot recall anything in the GW books.

As for normal Marines, there's this podcast, where Jes Goodwin talks a bit about the 7 feet average, the lifesize drawing he did, and the novels' tendency to make them "bigger with every book".
Which isn't actually "wrong", it's just a different interpretation. 40k does not actually have a canon, after all.

Here's how I always thought of it:

If a human stood next to a space marine, said human would come up to about the space marines chest/lung area.

If a space marine stood next to a primarch, the space marine would go up to about the same point as the normal human did to them.

So if a normal human stood next to a primarch, they would be around the waist/abdomen

Lynata wrote:What is the source of Primarchs being taller than "normal" Marines, anyways? Is that just BL author interpretation, too, or were there actually any comments in the studio material? I honestly do not know, but cannot recall anything in the GW books.

As for normal Marines, there's this podcast, where Jes Goodwin talks a bit about the 7 feet average, the lifesize drawing he did, and the novels' tendency to make them "bigger with every book".
Which isn't actually "wrong", it's just a different interpretation. 40k does not actually have a canon, after all.

It is implied.

In the old White Dwarf Index Astartes articles, Magnus the Red is said to be a giant "even among the Primarchs", rather than among Space Marines. Why word it that way were Primarchs not larger than Marines?

And... Let's be real, in 40k, bigger almost invariably equates to better. It's not hard to believe.

And more sources tend to state the seven foot average thing than anything else, so I tend to believe it. I prefer it that way as well admittedly.

Plenty of implications, disagreement, possibility of unreliable narrators/exaggerations, but the most commonly-quoted figures are a bit taller than humans today for normal humans (Ciaphas Cain is noted as being unusually tall at 6'7"), Space Marines tend to be 7' to 8' depending on Chapter and Marine (I imagine the Raven Guard might be on the shorter end, the Imperial Fists on the taller end, the Ultramarines somewhere in the middle since they're the vanilla Chapter with minimal distinctive characterization...), and Primarchs ranged from closer to 9" to 10" (wording implies they're 'giants', even in a room populated by Space Marines the Primarch is the tallest man there).

Void__Dragon wrote:Space Marines average out at seven feet tall and about seven hundred pounds. Custodians are only slightly bigger, if at all.

The only listed height for a Primarch is three meters, aka seven feet. The Primarch in question being the Lion. Leman Russ, Ferrus Manus, Angron, and of course Magnus the Red would all be taller.

You're a tad off with that measurement, there.

THREE metres equates to TEN feet (more or less). SEVEN feet is a tad over TWO metres (2.1336m). EIGHT feet is close to two-and-a-half metres.

Whilst I may have grown up and been taught nothing but the metric system in my schooling, parts of the country were slow in adopting it, so I am fluent in metric, British Imperial AND US imperial measurements (and I did an electronics apprenticeship with Qantas when we had to deal with ALL three on parts).

The "canon"* height (Ref: Jes Goodwin's 'lifesize' picture) is 8' BUT the first marking on the height is at the 1' mark, not at ZERO feet, so it's only SEVEN feet tall.

*Except there IS NO canon in 40k. It is ALL true and NONE of it is true at the same time.

chromedog wrote:You're a tad off with that measurement, there.

THREE metres equates to TEN feet (more or less). SEVEN feet is a tad over TWO metres (2.1336m). EIGHT feet is close to two-and-a-half metres.

Whilst I may have grown up and been taught nothing but the metric system in my schooling, parts of the country were slow in adopting it, so I am fluent in metric, British Imperial AND US imperial measurements.

The "canon"* height (Ref: Jes Goodwin's 'lifesize' picture) is 8' BUT the first marking on the height is at the 1' mark, not at ZERO feet, so it's only SEVEN feet tall.

*Except there IS NO canon in 40k. It is ALL true and NONE of it is true at the same time.

That was a typo.

Void__Dragon wrote:It is implied.
In the old White Dwarf Index Astartes articles, Magnus the Red is said to be a giant "even among the Primarchs", rather than among Space Marines. Why word it that way were Primarchs not larger than Marines?

Well, that would depend on the context - if said piece would only concern the Primarchs, then any comparison of this kind would be without meaning to anything else. I also just took a glance the Index Astartes collection (I have to admit, a fine book, quite recommendable even for 40k fans who do not collect a Marine army) and failed to find this sentence - the only occurrence in which Magnus is referred to as a "giant" is when he is compared to the natives of Prospero.

What I did find, however, was an autopsy report on two dead "Proto-Primarchs" created on a hidden base and placed into stasis for millennia until the site was rediscovered by a Mechanicus Explorator team. Said report did indeed mention the subjects being much bigger than normal Space Marines (alongside other interesting details on their biology), and even though these were not the Primarchs but rather an attempt at replication, I suppose it is reasonable to assume that the original Primarchs would conform to this height standard as well.

Anyways, thanks for pointing me that way.

As a side note, another Proto-Primarch seems to be on the loose, as all contact with the AdMech broke off, the last transmission mentioning their attempt to open a third pod next. Great plot potential!

Void__Dragon wrote:And... Let's be real, in 40k, bigger almost invariably equates to better. It's not hard to believe.

I was just wondering, given that Primarchs and GKs alike were said to be based largely on the Emperor's DNA, so I'm at a loss where that additional height would come from. Then again, I guess Emps might have just stretched his boys a little further just for effect, the Primarchs being intended to be leaders after all, and size adding to their charisma (or dread).

Though there are some exceptions to the bigger=better rule even in 40k, you also have a point in mentioning this. When it comes down to their features, the Astartes are pretty simplistic in design, and the Primarchs are a part of this so likely share in these aspects.

chromedog wrote:The "canon"* height (Ref: Jes Goodwin's 'lifesize' picture) is 8' BUT the first marking on the height is at the 1' mark, not at ZERO feet, so it's only SEVEN feet tall.
*Except there IS NO canon in 40k. It is ALL true and NONE of it is true at the same time.

Yeah, Jes clarifies that bit in the podcast, too.

Besides Primarchs and Space Marines. your adverage humans hieght and bulk would be determined by the planet they grew up on.
As far as im aware the imperium still uses Earth's aka Terra's gravity as a measurement for others, with 1 G being the gravity of Earth, But if a person grew up on a planet with 1.15Gs as its gravity then they would grow differently then one from the standard 1G. Obviously there are other factors, but the most generalized without involving genetics of the individual is the palents Gravity.

The Emperor is reported as being about 12ft (3.5m) tall with the Primarchs being around that same height and Space Marines being between 7ft and 12ft depending on your source and book. I even read once that the Emperor was 30ft (10m) tall but that's probably a wild exaggeration. Don't forget that the BL books are supposed to be witnesses of whatever happened so they all might say a different thing. If I was you I'd say that the best thing to do would be to just think of them as you imagine them to be. It's part of 40k's magic.

What I never get is as humans we are growing up quickly. Just look back a few generations where the norm was 5ft 4 to now where females norm is 5ft 8 let alone males. So a 7ft Space marine is not something super sized. Hell I am 6ft 5 and know people taller then me.

Bassline wrote:What I never get is as humans we are growing up quickly. Just look back a few generations where the norm was 5ft 4 to now where females norm is 5ft 8 let alone males. So a 7ft Space marine is not something super sized. Hell I am 6ft 5 and know people taller then me.

That norm also changes a lot depending on which country you're looking at, tho. I guess nutrition and environmental conditions are just as important as an ongoing evolution of the human body. Fortunately, for 40k, a lot of stuff can be explained by gravity, industrial pollution, and other explanations if you really want to get scientific.

Lynata wrote:

Bassline wrote:What I never get is as humans we are growing up quickly. Just look back a few generations where the norm was 5ft 4 to now where females norm is 5ft 8 let alone males. So a 7ft Space marine is not something super sized. Hell I am 6ft 5 and know people taller then me.

That norm also changes a lot depending on which country you're looking at, tho. I guess nutrition and environmental conditions are just as important as an ongoing evolution of the human body. Fortunately, for 40k, a lot of stuff can be explained by gravity, industrial pollution, and other explanations if you really want to get scientific.

Hmm true still think it be funny if saw a space marine in real life when out with mates as some of them would be eye level with them.

But is environment such a huge factor in height? I thought most of it was genetics

Bassline wrote:Hmm true still think it be funny if saw a space marine in real life when out with mates as some of them would be eye level with them.

Maybe, but would they be as wide as him? Jes Goodwin once said that with the Marines "it's not about the height, it's how massive they are".

Bassline wrote:But is environment such a huge factor in height? I thought most of it was genetics

I'm no expert, but it's what I heard.

*googles*

http://www.springerlink.com/content/9tqdqxchm1mg0rnf/ <- one example. As for genetics, that is invariably influenced by environment, so I guess they all influence it somehow.

Also interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Determinants_of_growth_and_height

I do know that some things factor into height good example is the Chinese when they use to be on a heavy rice and fish diet they where short. The newer generation what eats more red meat is now bringing the average height up for them alot. Also the tallest NBA player is Chinese

But 7 foot is still not shocking. The massive size they are be a bit weird saw that photo of Human Vs Tall Human Vs space marine and they about the same height but he three times as large but that is only due to packed full of extra organs.

the thing that started this post was me looking at this picture:

http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/4/4f/Marneus_Calgar_by_Karl_Kopinski.jpg

and thinking

how the hell is that guy so big.. ahhaha


alot of mixed answers here though..

there is this

I did n;t make it

Lynata wrote:

Bassline wrote:Hmm true still think it be funny if saw a space marine in real life when out with mates as some of them would be eye level with them.

Maybe, but would they be as wide as him? Jes Goodwin once said that with the Marines "it's not about the height, it's how massive they are".

This really is the crux of it. Space Marines are taller than most men, but they're going to much larger than all of them. There was a British basketball player who was 7'6" and 350 pounds in pretty good shape. And he'd be a shrimp compared to a Space Marine. They're probably pushing 500lbs, unarmored simply due to their sheer bulk, denser musculature, much denser bone structure (not to mention having more bones), additional internal organs, etc.

Some authors have tried to make the Space Marines too grandiose, and it starts to get silly. A nine or ten foot tall armored giant is going to have trouble walking inside narrow corridors, get caught up on low hanging things, be too heavy for a lot of ladders/catwalks, etc. There is always going to be a point of diminishing returns in creating genetic warriors. I know it makes the Marines sound much cooler when normal humans are barely up to eye level with the nipples on their armor, lol. However, in reality the Space Marines are probably only a little more than a head taller than a 6' tall man. It's going to be the fact that they're probably half again wider and deeper to accommodate all the extra stuff packed into their chests that makes them seem so massive. It's just easier for artists and authors to make them seem more awesome if everybody standing next to them is only like 5'2, lol.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:A nine or ten foot tall armored giant is going to have trouble walking inside narrow corridors, get caught up on low hanging things, be too heavy for a lot of ladders/catwalks, etc.

Somebody turn this into a comic!

Veteran Sergeant wrote:This really is the crux of it. Space Marines are taller than most men, but they're going to much larger than all of them. There was a British basketball player who was 7'6" and 350 pounds in pretty good shape. And he'd be a shrimp compared to a Space Marine. They're probably pushing 500lbs, unarmored simply due to their sheer bulk, denser musculature, much denser bone structure (not to mention having more bones), additional internal organs, etc.

Most sources that actually give weights for Marines place their weight at closer to seven hundred pounds, IIRC. Deathwatch I know did. Really, the Big Show, a professional wrestler, nears seven feet and five hundred pounds, and he'd be positively girlish in build next to a Marine.

Some authors have tried to make the Space Marines too grandiose, and it starts to get silly. A nine or ten foot tall armored giant is going to have trouble walking inside narrow corridors, get caught up on low hanging things, be too heavy for a lot of ladders/catwalks, etc. There is always going to be a point of diminishing returns in creating genetic warriors. I know it makes the Marines sound much cooler when normal humans are barely up to eye level with the nipples on their armor, lol. However, in reality the Space Marines are probably only a little more than a head taller than a 6' tall man. It's going to be the fact that they're probably half again wider and deeper to accommodate all the extra stuff packed into their chests that makes them seem so massive. It's just easier for artists and authors to make them seem more awesome if everybody standing next to them is only like 5'2, lol.

As a consequence of goofy author heights, I've heard people talk about Primarchs like they were nearly twenty feet tall, which is just goofy, lol.

Void__Dragon wrote:Space Marines average out at seven feet tall and about seven hundred pounds. Custodians are only slightly bigger, if at all.

The only listed height for a Primarch is three meters, aka seven feet. The Primarch in question being the Lion. Leman Russ, Ferrus Manus, Angr3 on, and of course Magnus the Red would all be taller.

3 meters is much more than 7 feet...it's actually more than 9 feet

Read the entire thread before you point out a typo I already corrected.

Void__Dragon wrote:Most sources that actually give weights for Marines place their weight at closer to seven hundred pounds, IIRC. Deathwatch I know did. Really, the Big Show, a professional wrestler, nears seven feet and five hundred pounds, and he'd be positively girlish in build next to a Marine.

I've never seen any sources for Space Marine weights, or at least I don't remember them. I'm somewhat impressed anybody ever gave it serious thought, lol. I'd almost be more shocked if any of them had any kind of scientific reasoning behind them.

However, one would hope that Space Marines are a bit more effectively constructed than The Big Show, lol. Though Wiki says Big Show is 7' and 440, and Andre the Giant was 7'4:" and475-540 lbs. I dunno if Space Marines would be two hundred pounds heavier than those guys. It's fair to say that their bodies will be far more efficient (skeletal structure denser and reinforced to support the additional weight without risk of degenerative disorders common in the extremely tall and heavy, as well as the fact that even regular human muscle is denser and heavier per cubic inch than the fat those two carried), so they're going to be heavier. I don't know if I'd say 40-50% heavier though. But, given a solid argument, I'm not going to argue too much. I'm sure there are people with a better background for theoretical biology.

Science or any sort of real-world logic has never been a factor in a single part of Warhammer 40k's fluff.

Grey Templar wrote:10ft is BL overexaggeration.

Keep in mind that measurements may not be the same. Ft on one planet(read authors perspective) may not be the same as Ft on another planet.

I never thought of it like that before, that's a great way to keep things consistent.