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So, already from reading the new WD I've seen that 40k will include Psychic Disciplines, which we presume will work similar to Fantasy's Magic - we've already seen mentions of 'Mastery Level' (Magic Level) and generation; there's challenges; a random charge distance; more emphasis on your 'Warlord'; Mysterious Terrain; a table of 6 Missions and some other rumours that hint at other possible links.

Now, I'm not complaining about this rules-wise, in fact, many of the things I've listed above are things I love about Fantasy, but what bothers me that the two game systems may be very similar to play and what I've liked about playing both Game Systems is that they're both very different and make for varied games.

Yes, the rulebook hasn't come out yet, but looking at WD, there seems to be many similarities.

So, what does the community of Dakka think?

Unless Fantasy gets round bases, does away with formations altogether, and completey changes its core dynamics, no I don't think so.

Too similar is fine by me. I personally would be thrilled if they released a pdf or even WD on crossing units over between the two.

I don't know many in our local area that play both equally (a few have a small WHFB force and then have massive 40k stuff, and a few are the opposite, but only 2 die-hards in both).

It'd be ironic, as the original Rogue Trader rules were just adapted Fantasy rules.

Vehicles were essentially large multi-wound creatures, and Psykers bought and used their powers by what level of Psychic mastery the model had, and using a power drained their "power points" until they were gone or they could get some respite to recharge them.

Seeing as the fantasy rules are far more stable than 40k, as well as balanced..Why not?

As I pointed out when I failed to see this thread already existed (God-Emperor, I'm so embarrassed...), we're also getting Fear, Look Out Sir!, Stand and Shoot/Overwatch and muti wound tanks/ monsters.

I've always wanted to learn Fantasy, so I think it's great

I don't mind 40k taking some of Fantasy's stronger points and boosting the game.

To me, Fantasy is much more about maneuvering and positioning your entire army and not just certain units you need to win you the game so I don't think 40k is going to be too much in danger of getting to this style.

As long as they don't introduce elves, dark elves, orcs and tomb kings it'll still be different enough...oh wait.

40K units are still more skirmish-like as you get to manuver indivdual models, not just the unit
but in someway it is getting a bit too similar... especially with the new 'Warlords' and 'Mysterious Terrain'
Oh well, I'm just glad all my armies have HQ's with similar LD (Necrons all have the same, Chaos are all LD 10 in the HQ department) The only thing I'll hate using now (in thaat regard) are orks... My squishy warboss will be the target of a lot of firepower....

Matt.Kingsley wrote:40K units are still more skirmish-like as you get to manuver indivdual models, not just the unit
but in someway it is getting a bit too similar... especially with the new 'Warlords' and 'Mysterious Terrain'
Oh well, I'm just glad all my armies have HQ's with similar LD (Necrons all have the same, Chaos are all LD 10 in the HQ department) The only thing I'll hate using now (in thaat regard) are orks... My squishy warboss will be the target of a lot of firepower....

Not like it'll change to much, orks are fearless at 10+ and the warlord chosen trait "Inspirational General" will really only help those units that cant hit 10+

Like Mega-nobz. Now that PW are 3+ rather than 2+ mega armor might be using in a worthwhile manner now, not to mention you don't have to use that, there's some other options for the warlord of the army.

Well, I run biker boss with mega armour mek, just coz t suprises my oppents to learn that they both have the same no. of attacks (doble pk ftw)
So, yeah, I suppose it isn't that bad...

Asking if it will be 'too similar' seems to be predicated on the idea that this is automatically a bad thing.


For what it's worth, 2nd edition 40K was almost identical to the corresponding edition of Warhammer Fantasy. Nobody minded... it just made it easier to learn both games. (And coincidentally made it possible to run 40K armies against WHFB armies with just a little bit of tweaking )

I dont care if they boost the psychic stuff my weirdboy is too unreliable and im sick of stupid space wolfes making my nobs take initiative tests without me being able to block out psychic powers, also I dont think it will ever be too similar considering since 40k has vehicles, for the most part since the release of all those stupid super chariots the empire just got

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:I dont care if they boost the psychic stuff my weirdboy is too unreliable and im sick of stupid space wolfes making my nobs take initiative tests without me being able to block out psychic powers, also I dont think it will ever be too similar considering since 40k has vehicles, for the most part since the release of all those stupid super chariots the empire just got

From what I've heard other psykers will get the chance to block powers now, the hood only buffs it up to 4+ or so.

The Shadow wrote:So, already from reading the new WD I've seen that 40k will include Psychic Disciplines, which we presume will work similar to Fantasy's Magic - we've already seen mentions of 'Mastery Level' (Magic Level) and generation; there's challenges; a random charge distance; more emphasis on your 'Warlord'; Mysterious Terrain; a table of 6 Missions and some other rumours that hint at other possible links.

Now, I'm not complaining about this rules-wise, in fact, many of the things I've listed above are things I love about Fantasy, but what bothers me that the two game systems may be very similar to play and what I've liked about playing both Game Systems is that they're both very different and make for varied games.

Yes, the rulebook hasn't come out yet, but looking at WD, there seems to be many similarities.

So, what does the community of Dakka think?

They might as well rename it WH40KB. Not lovin' it.

The changes to the psychic system, whatever they might be, are part of the reason I am always disappointed in new editions.

There's plenty wrong with 40K that needs a change. There's confusing rules, clumsy mechanics, redundant stats and needless complication.

But the psychic powers were not one of them. Psychic powers worked pretty well with the old system. You had a list of powers in your codex, you paid points for them, the end. Why change it? It smacks of change for it's own sake, because someone in the studio had an idea and followed up on it like an over-excited puppy, rather than everyone sitting down and planning how they could actually improve the way the game plays.

Well, to clear things up I'm worried about this purely because I don't want two games systems that are almost identical to play: it defeats the point really.

@Kaldor: Yes, I agree. It might not be as bad if you have to 'buy' the Powers in the rulebook, but from what I've seen you generate them.

But the psychic powers were not one of them. Psychic powers worked pretty well with the old system. You had a list of powers in your codex, you paid points for them, the end. Why change it? It smacks of change for it's own sake, because someone in the studio had an idea and followed up on it like an over-excited puppy, rather than everyone sitting down and planning how they could actually improve the way the game plays.

Because they didn't, not all of them worked properly in the same manner and there was no fully agreed upon rule between them.

See the arguments between JOTWW and the Blood Lance, roll to hit or not roll to hit, powers being misused and not being used in the right section, all the ones with powers getting randomly determined by codex powers, and even than there was arguments for even the more base line damage ones.

With this, it adds new ones, adds classification for all the powers as well as the rules that govern them, and finally makes it so that there is actual levels to determine things.

Fantasyhammer 40000... damn.

Personally, I can see what GW is trying.to do. They seem to think changing 40k to mimic fantasy will make it easier to learn fantasy and get you doing both. Personally I don't WANT TO play FANTASY. I want to play 40k. When I first went into GW in
'07 (right before the changeover to 5th) I looked at the 2 systems and said "I like 40k, but not fantasy". I didn't like the 7th ed system nor 8th that much. The 4th 40k rules I didn't even use. I waited untill summer 08 before building anything, and didn't play a single game untill Oct 08, for intro games. The changeover the 5th was the first rules system I learned and I liked it much better than 4th (ie TLoS and simpler damage).