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Necron lord - ressurection orb, guantlet of fire 70p
Necron cryptek - abysssal staff, shroud of darkness 60p
10 necron warriors - 130p
5 necron immortals - 85p
triarch stalker - 150p

This is how i want this army to work: Ill have the necron lord behind the warriors but not have him with them exactly so he can step in and use the Resurrection orb when needed. Then have my cryptek with the immortals and use the shroud of darkness to protect them as they move up to quickly destroy there targets. Then i figure since the triarch stalker has an armor value of 33, i figure that it would be legal to use in a small army like this and in tournaments. Having the stalker in there would be used to quickly take out the Enemy HQ or anything thats threatening to my army. With all of this said, what are your thoughts?

Unfortunately, you can't take lord or crypteks without an hq overlord. As the lords are not IC, they can't do what you want them to as they need to be attached to a unit or walking separately.

You'll need to rethink.

MarkCron wrote:Unfortunately, you can't take lord or crypteks without an hq overlord. As the lords are not IC, they can't do what you want them to as they need to be attached to a unit or walking separately.

You'll need to rethink.

So who can lead a 500p?

Well, you can have any overlord. So a base overlord is 90pts, plus war scythe and mss to make him useful is 115.

Alternatively, you can use Szeras, who is only 100 and gives a mini buff to immortals.

1 Necron overlord - warcythe, mind shackle scarabs 115p
10 necron warrior's - 130p
1 triarch stalker - 150p
3 canoptek wraith's - 105p
500 total points

Put the overlord with the warriors. Use that group and basic fluff to take on the enemy troops or whatever reach's them first. Then have the wraith's rush whatever decides to come closest so their plans are already messed up. Then have the Triarch stalker take out their HQ or if they have something i should really be worried about he can Ray it to death. gave it some though and i think this new army would be better because it has more balance to it. Say there was a 500 point tournament of sorts, would this army be ok to use?

In the revised army the stalker is definitely not adding much useful. You would be much better off with more wraiths, if you have the models.

With the spare points, get phaeron for the overlord, cos that will make the warriors relentless.

I'm definatly in favor of dropping the stalker. Are you doing a rapid fire tournament? If so you way want to review the (W) characteristic limit. If I'm not mistaken an overlord has too many.

One more thing, am I missing something about the wraiths? After reviewing the new codex they dont seem worth anything to me. Specially considering how much usefullness they lost from old codex.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:I'm definatly in favor of dropping the stalker. Are you doing a rapid fire tournament? If so you way want to review the (W) characteristic limit. If I'm not mistaken an overlord has too many.

One more thing, am I missing something about the wraiths? After reviewing the new codex they dont seem worth anything to me. Specially considering how much usefullness they lost from old codex.

huh so i should just think over a 1000p army instead if i want to do tourny's?

Generally most 500 point tournaments limit (W) on models and (S) on weapons to ensure a balanced game. Imagine if, in a 500 point game I was able to field the old nightbringer. It would be an instawin b/c no one would build an army capable of killing him. Necrons used to be the masters of low point value games b/c immortals were unkillable in 500 pts but now you need much more support in them to make it a competitive army. 500 is hard on crons because we dont have alot of room to field support

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:Generally most 500 point tournaments limit (W) on models and (S) on weapons to ensure a balanced game. Imagine if, in a 500 point game I was able to field the old nightbringer. It would be an instawin b/c no one would build an army capable of killing him. Necrons used to be the masters of low point value games b/c immortals were unkillable in 500 pts but now you need much more support in them to make it a competitive army. 500 is hard on crons because we dont have alot of room to field support

so what are the max wounds in 500? then in 1000? so i can get a better idea of what i can use.

As far as I've seen its usually 2 wounds max with no S-9 or above weapons and no ordnance. That balances "Rapid Fire" (as we call them) games pretty well.

the usuall force org in "Rapid Fire" is 0-1 Hq, 1-6 troop, 0-1 HS, 0-2 Elite and FA 0-1 AV-34. Anything else is pretty much okay.

As for the 1000 the rule I've seen is

0-1 Hq, 2-6 Troop, 0-2 HS, Elite, and FA, 0-1 AV 36, 0-2 AV-34, 0-1 Ordnance, 0-1 S 9 shooting, 0-1 3 W models.

And a real quick question to anyone reading, has there been any official statment to how necron vehicle armor values work for tournaments with quantum shielding and maximum armor values?

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:As far as I've seen its usually 2 wounds max with no S-9 or above weapons and no ordnance. That balances "Rapid Fire" (as we call them) games pretty well.

the usuall force org in "Rapid Fire" is 0-1 Hq, 1-6 troop, 0-1 HS, 0-2 Elite and FA 0-1 AV-34. Anything else is pretty much okay.

As for the 1000 the rule I've seen is

0-1 Hq, 2-6 Troop, 0-2 HS, Elite, and FA, 0-1 AV 36, 0-2 AV-34, 0-1 Ordnance, 0-1 S 9 shooting, 0-1 3 W models.

gotcha, thanks for the help, now i can think up a new army and post it here to see how you guys like it.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:Generally most 500 point tournaments limit (W) on models and (S) on weapons to ensure a balanced game. Imagine if, in a 500 point game I was able to field the old nightbringer. It would be an instawin b/c no one would build an army capable of killing him. Necrons used to be the masters of low point value games b/c immortals were unkillable in 500 pts but now you need much more support in them to make it a competitive army. 500 is hard on crons because we dont have alot of room to field support

While this is true generally speaking- tournament runners have a NASTY habit of placing arbitrary exclusions and requirements on armies in the name of "balancing" 500 points, but there is no way to know for sure what will be banned.

Some popular ones are no more than 2 wounds (with exceptions for armies that have only 3 wound HQs, like Warlocks fulfilling HQ for eldar, etc)
No armor above 33 (half the time quantum shielding is included, half the time it is not, so don't rely on being able to take any necron vehicles)
and restrictions on toughness, such as no toughness 6.

So while these rules are very common and its important to know how to build lists around them, they are terrible for balance, and do a lot more harm then they do good. Practically these types of restrictions make the best armies better while significantly nerfing armies that already have a hard time. Here are some examples.

Imperial Guard will generally be totally immune to many of these restrictions. Chimeras are AV 32 all around, So a guard army with 3 chimera stuffed with melta and plasma is one of the most competitive things you can field at 500 points, and generally completely unphased by any restrictions.

On the other hand, Tyranids cannot even field hive guard (toughness 6, or any monsterous creatures), or Eldar can't even field a basic transport because of AV 34. Even without those rediculous restrictions, mech plasma guard is going to have a pretty easy time against either of those opponents. Essentially Xeno power is reduced for no real reason, while armies like Space Wolves and Imperial Guard are unphased

Essentially these types of rules are built using the assumption that everybody plays space marines, and only plays space marines or imperial armies. The result is that they have huge negative impacts on almost all of the Xeno armies, and only have marginal impacts on Space Marine lists-- such as dissallowing gimicky land raider lists which are going to get curbed stomped by melta mech IG anyway.

If you have any sway over a low point tournament, that you want to be competitive for more armies than just SW, SM, BA, GK, and IG, then you should fight these restrictions tooth and nail, because they make no sense. Generally all of the armies can make competitive 500 point lists within the force organization just fine, and it will be more balanced then trying to play around with these capricious restrictions.

Yeah, the arbitrary rule of thumb at my FLGS is no imperial assassins in games from 0-1500 pts. I hate that rule with a burning passion

with all that said, how do you guys feel about this one?

Overlord - warscythe, ressurection orb 130p
10 necron warriors - 130p
Night sycthe - 100p
3 tomb blades - nebuloscopes 95p
Destroyer - 40p
495 points total

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
One more thing, am I missing something about the wraiths? After reviewing the new codex they dont seem worth anything to me. Specially considering how much usefullness they lost from old codex.

Yep, you are missing something! The wraiths are by far the best CC unit in the Codex and right up there with the best CC units in the game. Ignore terrain, JI, High S, rending, lots of attacks, 3+invul save. Whip coils to reduce enemy initiative to 1 (I2 being the bane of the necron existence) for the win!

You do need to take them in bunches of 5 or more, generally with 3 whip coils. Also, as with all elite CC units, they die to focussed shooting, so a bit of deployment care is needed, however with JI and no terrain tests, that isn't a big problem.

to the OP, the comments about "Rapid Fire" (sometimes known as Combat Patrol) tournaments are valid, in that they quite often have restrictions. In particular the no 3 wound models tends to hurt Necrons because all our HQ are 3 wounds. Also, the no AV>11 is a pain, because QS gives our vehicles AV13.

However, depending on where you play, a "normal" FOC at 500pts is not uncommon.

Anyway, the key for Necrons at 500pts, imho, is small groups of warriors (say 2X5) then a unit of wraiths, then add scarabs to fill points. This will give you scoring, and two fast units (scarabs primarily for AT, but useful against meq in a pinch plus wraiths for AI.).

hth

waaghoroth7 wrote:with all that said, how do you guys feel about this one?

Overlord - warscythe, ressurection orb 130p
10 necron warriors - 130p
Night sycthe - 100p
3 tomb blades - nebuloscopes 95p
Destroyer - 40p
495 points total

The single destroyer is begging to be killed. If your 500pt battles are like the ones at my store:

No model can have more than 2 wounds
No special characters
No 2+ saves
No more than AV 33 all around
1 troop mandatory

Honestly, 500 pt games suck because of not being able to take HQ units, but there are still some crazy things you can do like this at low points:

5 Immortals w/ Tesla
5 Immortals w/ Tesla

4 Wraiths w/ 1 whip coil

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

It tends to scare people when you plop down two Annihilation Barges and Wraiths at 500pts.

Great has it good. The list he posted is a nice one for 500 and thanks for the reminder about the 2+ in "Rapid Fire". I forgot about that rule. In fact, at my FLGS I forced them to include an invul rule b/c i fielded 4 units of GK's with nemesis staves (2++ in cc)

Great Deceiver wrote:

waaghoroth7 wrote:with all that said, how do you guys feel about this one?

Overlord - warscythe, ressurection orb 130p
10 necron warriors - 130p
Night sycthe - 100p
3 tomb blades - nebuloscopes 95p
Destroyer - 40p
495 points total

The single destroyer is begging to be killed. If your 500pt battles are like the ones at my store:

No model can have more than 2 wounds
No special characters
No 2+ saves
No more than AV 33 all around
1 troop mandatory

Honestly, 500 pt games suck because of not being able to take HQ units, but there are still some crazy things you can do like this at low points:

5 Immortals w/ Tesla
5 Immortals w/ Tesla

4 Wraiths w/ 1 whip coil

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

It tends to scare people when you plop down two Annihilation Barges and Wraiths at 500pts.

So i really should just think of going to 1000 points to be done with it?

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:One more thing, am I missing something about the wraiths? After reviewing the new codex they dont seem worth anything to me. Specially considering how much usefullness they lost from old codex.

You must have missed that page or had it stuck to another one because Wraiths are THE CC unit for Necrons. 2 wounds, 3++, rending, and whip coils that drop the enemy in BTB to I1? Prepare to smell the moist and ripe odor of your opponents soiled underwear and rustled jimmies. Lychguard and Scarabs are tied for 2nd, IMO, and the Praetorians and Flayed Ones come in last for obvious reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

waaghoroth7 wrote:So i really should just think of going to 1000 points to be done with it?

What do you mean? Aren't you playing a 500pt tourney?

Great Deceiver wrote:

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:One more thing, am I missing something about the wraiths? After reviewing the new codex they dont seem worth anything to me. Specially considering how much usefullness they lost from old codex.

You must have missed that page or had it stuck to another one because Wraiths are THE CC unit for Necrons. 2 wounds, 3++, rending, and whip coils that drop the enemy in BTB to I1? Prepare to smell the moist and ripe odor of your opponents soiled underwear and rustled jimmies. Lychguard and Scarabs are tied for 2nd, IMO, and the Praetorians and Flayed Ones come in last for obvious reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

waaghoroth7 wrote:So i really should just think of going to 1000 points to be done with it?

What do you mean? Aren't you playing a 500pt tourney?

getting ready to start going into them, i just want to get a collection of idea's so i can do well. i haven't exactly bought the army yet but im planning on it.

500 isint awful for crons but we have pretty much the same limitation as other shooting armies. Our greatest games lie in higher point values where we can field our bigger toys. We are definatly one of the stronger (if not strongest) shooting armies for low point value but the issue with shooting armies in low point value is that they get buried in numbers by CC armies (Lack of templates, ect.) As long as you tailor your list to be aware of that fact you should be fine.

i can get you 505 points

Overlord, warscythe CCB
harbinger of despair, veil of darkness

5x immortals, tesla carbine
5x warriors, ghost ark.

Overlord rips through tough units and any tanks that might appear.
Immortals join Harbinger and immediatly disappear and target an open vunerable unit.
Warriors are safe inside a armour 13 ark and can rapid fire out.
fun times.