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So, me and my sis where having a discussion about Child protective services(not sure what other countries call it) and Privacy.
She said that CPS is to much into others business and that they do more harm then good, I think what they do is a good hjob of making sure children dont get hurt.
But she stuck to that and how people are horrible for reporting families to CPS.
And i have always wondered, If you hear/see/suspect child abuse(or domestic violence for that matter) is it your duty to report it? Or should you turn a blind eye?

Depends, in some case where it is actually unsafe for the child and not pure over reaction then yes they should report to help that child. It's only a problem when someone makes a false report, though then I suspect they'd take the time to investigate it properly. I doubt they just show up and take the child with them.

Better to be safe then sorry. Report it if it looks like child abuse, otherwise it will just carry on without any intervention.

Child Protective Services That Operate Like the Mob

Of course, there are also situations like the recent one of the woman who kept her daughter locked in a closet for days at a time and fed her sporadically. The girl was 10 years old and weighed 32lbs.

I say there is a need, but that regulation and oversight is important.

If you honestly suspect it, report. Err on the side of caution.

That being said, if you have access to the kid/family to gather a little bit of info beyond (say) just seeing a parent swat a kid for acting out in public, it's worth looking for some kind of confirmatory evidence before sending in CPS. That can be pretty traumatic for families falsely accused.

And I'm sure all of you know better, but don't ever make false reports as a way of trying to screw over someone you don't like. It's a dirty thing to do, and most of the time it's pretty obvious. I used to take those reports; and while the reports have to be treated seriously, some of these jackasses calling in are clearly full of gak.

I think if there is suspicion of neglect or abuse then they should be called. Now spanking your kid on the ass for biting his brother isn't what I call abuse. Smacking him in the face for talking back is abuse. Starving a kid is abuse. Not maintaining a healthy environment for that child is neglect.

Anyone who has kids and rages against CPS is secretly ashamed because they know they would likely fail an inspection or investigation. I have nothing to hide. I discipline my children with reserve. I don't go off on them. I don't berate them verbally. I most certainly would never hit them in the face or cause a bruise or mark on them. My kids are fed, their room is clean, the house is clean.

These things are not hard to do.

Waterboarding doesn't leave bruises....

Mannahnin wrote:If you honestly suspect it, report. Err on the side of caution.

That being said, if you have access to the kid/family to gather a little bit of info beyond (say) just seeing a parent swat a kid for acting out in public, it's worth looking for some kind of confirmatory evidence before sending in CPS. That can be pretty traumatic for families falsely accused.

And I'm sure all of you know better, but don't ever make false reports as a way of trying to screw over someone you don't like. It's a dirty thing to do, and most of the time it's pretty obvious. I used to take those reports; and while the reports have to be treated seriously, some of these jackasses calling in are clearly full of gak.

This is the best comment on the whole subject. I've had a couple of friends get jacked over severly enough to the point that it took years for their families to recover from bs reports. Reputations were wrecked and both the parents and children were fairly traumatized by the gauntlet of being investigated by Child protective services, then being judged and condemned by people that didn't know them outside of the fact they had been investigated.

If you suspect it, and don't report it, you become culpable.

I have reported a lot, both child protective and adult protective services (elder abuse is just as real and damaging as child abuse).

But I do get into a lot of contact with it working in an emergency room.

They will investigate, and if nothing is going on then it's a quick "sorry to bother you" and they are gone. So err on the side of cation and always trust your instincts.

It wholly depends on what I saw or heard. If I saw a mother or father give their child a whallop on the backside because he was being a complete ass and misbehaving then I'd think nothing of it as the kid needs to learn to behave. If I saw a parent whollap a kid and there were no signs that it was warrented then yes, I'd report them and let the appropriate services deal with it and make the judgement.


My parents gave me an occasional whallop when I refused to behave and it did the power of good and I fear that denying parents the right to disiplin their children is a contributing factor to the problems with youths we're having now in the UK. Key words in that last sentence "contributing factor!" I'm not naive enough to think just one thing is to blame for all the worlds problems

I have a friend working for Social Services in the UK down in London and she has recanted some of the tales of things she has witnessed while doing her rounds (omitting any personal information of course) and its easy to see how intrusive it can be and in some cases its justified and in others its not. Its hard for them because they can't pick and choose which cases they look into or not, they have to respond equally to any claim.

Even if nothing comes of it, its still unnerving for parents and underminds their authority with their children. Especially if you get those little *ahem!* that know they can stir up trouble if they don't get their own way and make false allegations. But thats another subject entirely I suppose

Like many government entities, they are both good and bad. My oldest brother had the CPS called on him once by a teacher his then son had (It was a crazy marriage, dont ask) anyways, she called CPS on him because while at a parent teacher conference, he got annoyed and pissed at this hippy of a teacher. Rather then explain what his son was doing wrong and what needed improvement, she just kept telling him weird gak like "Your son just needs to think more with his heart" And even something about him being a young sapling in nature.......Im not sure. But he couldnt take it anymore, got up and told her shes a fething loon, and then left with his son. So she called on him for it So an afternoon missed from work to clear all the BS up. IVe heard other terrible stories of why they showed up and even take kids. Other times, I personally think they are a good thing, some people just should not have children

The CPS needs to hire a thousand people like that lady from Super Nanny.

KingCracker wrote:Like many government entities, they are both good and bad. My oldest brother had the CPS called on him once by a teacher his then son had (It was a crazy marriage, dont ask) anyways, she called CPS on him because while at a parent teacher conference, he got annoyed and pissed at this hippy of a teacher. Rather then explain what his son was doing wrong and what needed improvement, she just kept telling him weird gak like "Your son just needs to think more with his heart" And even something about him being a young sapling in nature.......Im not sure. But he couldnt take it anymore, got up and told her shes a fething loon, and then left with his son. So she called on him for it So an afternoon missed from work to clear all the BS up. IVe heard other terrible stories of why they showed up and even take kids. Other times, I personally think they are a good thing, some people just should not have children

If your brother thinks it's appropriate to insult a teacher in front of her students, at a parent-teacher meeting, because he didn't like the registry of vocabulary she used, then yes, that's a valid reason to get child services to check into it. That's pretty unstable ...

That's not what he said. He said (in the opinion of his brother) the teacher was a fruitcake and an idiot. He furnished a couple of secondhand examples of things she allegedly said.

Now, I tend to concur that blowing up at a teacher at a parent-teacher conference isn't a very smart or mature thing to do, but it's also not an appropriate basis on which to make a false report of child abuse. If we're going to assume that the teacher wasn't a loon or an idiot, that was an even more irresponsible act on her part, and she should have known better.

If there was any evidence that the guy screamed "I have had it with you Fething hippy! Let's get the feth out of here", then threw over the table, then grab his kid by the arm and violently drag him out if there...then she might have a case for calling CPS.

But that doesn't sound like the example given.

Mannahnin wrote:That's not what he said. He said (in the opinion of his brother) the teacher was a fruitcake and an idiot. He furnished a couple of secondhand examples of things she allegedly said.

Now, I tend to concur that blowing up at a teacher at a parent-teacher conference isn't a very smart or mature thing to do, but it's also not an appropriate basis on which to make a false report of child abuse. If we're going to assume that the teacher wasn't a loon or an idiot, that was an even more irresponsible act on her part, and she should have known better.

'But he couldnt take it anymore, got up and told her shes a fething loon, and then left with his son. ''

Is exactly what I refered to. And calling CPS doesn't mean they'll automatically come and take away the kid. But if the parent doesn't have the decency to remain polite in an meeting with his son's teacher, then yes, it warrants at least putting his name on a file and doing a quick lookup. It's not that hard to simply dislike someone and not tell anyone about it : I do it every day.

You're drawing some pretty strong conclusions from a secondhand anecdote. And being rude to a teacher does not justify a false report of suspected child abuse.

And calling CPS doesn't mean they'll automatically come and take away the kid.

Did you miss the part where I said I used to take these reports?

But if the parent doesn't have the decency to remain polite in an meeting with his son's teacher, then yes, it warrants at least putting his name on a file and doing a quick lookup

No, it doesn't. And you're mischaracterizing what's involved in making that report.

Mannahnin wrote:Did you miss the part where I said I used to take these reports?

You missed the part we're you didn't explain anything about those reports. And I've participated in a CPS report on the condition of a girl I used to live with. The claim was facetious, but the case of abuse was absolutely real. It wouldn't have become apparent without the initial doubt brought on by the fictitious claim. The difference between a bogus claim, and one that is brought on by legitimate concerns, isn't always clear.

When the event prompting it is an interaction between the parents and the teachers, I'm willing to give a bit of leeway to the teacher, as I've taught what, 1 session and a half, and I've already picked up on a few cases...

So how does calling a teacher a name indicate child abuse?

d-usa wrote:So how does calling a teacher a name indicate child abuse?

It doesn't but it could show that the parent has anger issues which could pose a risk to the child.

d-usa wrote:So how does calling a teacher a name indicate child abuse?

Calling the teacher a name in front on the kid, in an institutionnal event, in front of other parents/students, then taking off with the kid, making it impossible for the parent to actually involve himself in his kid's education, could be an indication of child abuse (or more appropriately a lack of care).

Kovnik Obama wrote:

d-usa wrote:So how does calling a teacher a name indicate child abuse?

Calling the teacher a name in front on the kid, in an institutionnal event, in front of other parents/students, then taking off with the kid, making it impossible for the parent to actually involve himself in his kid's education, could be an indication of child abuse (or more appropriately a lack of care).

Kovnik is right on this. You have to remember that in a room full parents and children only one became belligerent and confrontational, which are often red flags for other more serious problems, and as many people above have said, they would tend to err on the side of caution. The problem with acting irrationally is that it makes people think you are irrational, and on occasion, maybe even dangerous.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Like many government entities, they are both good and bad. My oldest brother had the CPS called on him once by a teacher his then son had (It was a crazy marriage, dont ask) anyways, she called CPS on him because while at a parent teacher conference, he got annoyed and pissed at this hippy of a teacher. Rather then explain what his son was doing wrong and what needed improvement, she just kept telling him weird gak like "Your son just needs to think more with his heart" And even something about him being a young sapling in nature.......Im not sure. But he couldnt take it anymore, got up and told her shes a fething loon, and then left with his son. So she called on him for it So an afternoon missed from work to clear all the BS up. IVe heard other terrible stories of why they showed up and even take kids. Other times, I personally think they are a good thing, some people just should not have children

If your brother thinks it's appropriate to insult a teacher in front of her students, at a parent-teacher meeting, because he didn't like the registry of vocabulary she used, then yes, that's a valid reason to get child services to check into it. That's pretty unstable ...

I disagree. That does sound like a loon. Also sounds like a parent/teacher conference, not an open house. If the teacher is going off on his kid in the middle of an open house, its fire the teacher time (even if the rugrat richly deserved it).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:That's not what he said. He said (in the opinion of his brother) the teacher was a fruitcake and an idiot. He furnished a couple of secondhand examples of things she allegedly said.

Now, I tend to concur that blowing up at a teacher at a parent-teacher conference isn't a very smart or mature thing to do, but it's also not an appropriate basis on which to make a false report of child abuse. If we're going to assume that the teacher wasn't a loon or an idiot, that was an even more irresponsible act on her part, and she should have known better.

'But he couldnt take it anymore, got up and told her shes a fething loon, and then left with his son. ''

Is exactly what I refered to. And calling CPS doesn't mean they'll automatically come and take away the kid. But if the parent doesn't have the decency to remain polite in an meeting with his son's teacher, then yes, it warrants at least putting his name on a file and doing a quick lookup. It's not that hard to simply dislike someone and not tell anyone about it : I do it every day.

So insulting the teacher means he's neglecting his kid?

I think the best way to fix alot of the false accusation problems CPS has is to put some resposability on the person blowing the whistle.

They should get their name, number, and address. As well as a full description of the reason for their suspicions.


If the accusation is blatently false, they should be repremanded in some way. Possably through a Defamation or Slander lawsuit.


CPS also needs to be brought into line so they don't violate people's rights. Parents are often forced to allow unwarrented searchs or their children are taken away by force(both of which are highly illegal)

Many CPS personel have no respect for the rights of the parents.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Did you miss the part where I said I used to take these reports?

You missed the part we're you didn't explain anything about those reports. And I've participated in a CPS report on the condition of a girl I used to live with. The claim was facetious, but the case of abuse was absolutely real. It wouldn't have become apparent without the initial doubt brought on by the fictitious claim. The difference between a bogus claim, and one that is brought on by legitimate concerns, isn't always clear.

Whether a person genuinely suspects abuse is a subjective judgment, and known to them. It can sometimes be pretty obvious to other people, though, especially if the person taking the report has taken a lot of insincere vindictive reports, and recognizes the insincerity. That being said, investigators have to take them seriously. A false report can cause real disruption and harm to a family. That's why people make them. It's not morally defensible to accuse a person of abusing their kids on the basis that they got angry at an adult and called that person names.

Frazzled wrote:So insulting the teacher means he's neglecting his kid?

Context is important here. Also, it didn't mean he was neglecting his kid, but that they exhibited signs that are consistent with troubled home lives, be it neglect, abuse, or both. That level of anger, lack of self-control, and us vs them mentality are classic symptoms. While it doesn't mean that there is a problem for sure, it would certainly elicit concern. We also are getting this story through the aggrieved party second hand. I imagine if we talked to the school or other parents their at the time we would get a different story. I'm not saying they had to call CPS, but I can see where concerns were raised to the point someone felt that it should be looked into.

Grey Templar wrote:I think the best way to fix alot of the false accusation problems CPS has is to put some resposability on the person blowing the whistle.

They should get their name, number, and address. As well as a full description of the reason for their suspicions.

First, remember that each state has its own rules and regulations, though there are some Federal guidelines. Second, the agencies do ask for those things; if the person is willing to stand behind their statements and possibly testify to them later, that certainly increases their credibility. But without anonymous reporting you would get more people keeping silent about bad things. Better to take the anonymous reports than to miss out on them, possibly endangering a kid further.

Grey Templar wrote:If the accusation is blatently false, they should be repremanded in some way. Possably through a Defamation or Slander lawsuit.

Again, we don't want to discourage people from reporting. That's a recipe for more kids going unhelped. "blatantly false" is a really subjective thing. We want to protect people acting in good faith, as that's the best way to protect kids.

Grey Templar wrote:CPS also needs to be brought into line so they don't violate people's rights. Parents are often forced to allow unwarrented searchs or their children are taken away by force(both of which are highly illegal)

Many CPS personel have no respect for the rights of the parents.

I think those are some extremely broad statements, about fifty different state agencies, all of which have laws and regulations to protect kids and their parents.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Did you miss the part where I said I used to take these reports?

You missed the part we're you didn't explain anything about those reports. And I've participated in a CPS report on the condition of a girl I used to live with. The claim was facetious, but the case of abuse was absolutely real. It wouldn't have become apparent without the initial doubt brought on by the fictitious claim. The difference between a bogus claim, and one that is brought on by legitimate concerns, isn't always clear.

When the event prompting it is an interaction between the parents and the teachers, I'm willing to give a bit of leeway to the teacher, as I've taught what, 1 session and a half, and I've already picked up on a few cases...

I am late coming to this thread but would like to give a bit on this post.

I find this akin to unethical experiments. While the experiment itself is for the betterment (in this example) of others, the price is paid by those involved in the unethical actions taken. The same is happening here, while the outcome was to help an abused child, you had to lie to get the investigation started.

Was it not possible to just tell the authorities that "I am sure abuse is happening to this child but can't give details." or anything along this line?

Looks like theres a hippy problem in the great north as well
Yea, my brother got upset, at a one on one with a teacher, THAT WOULDNT EXPLAIN HIS SONS PROBLEMS IN SCHOOL (I made that so large since it was apparently left out previously) and rather then explain to him why he needed to be there for this conference, told him things like I mentioned, him thinking with his heart, and being a young sapling in nature. How does that answer VALID questions a parent would have in said situation? Yes, the teacher was a fething loon, period. And calling the CPS because he called her one, whether he swears at her or not, is NOT a valid reason to report someone to CPS.