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Hi,

I'm getting ready to start playing Warmachine / Hordes and need some advice picking an army. My two choices are Cygnar and Circle of Orboros. I like both of them, but at this time can only pick one. Can anyone give me some info on each army?

Cygnar are essentially Warmahordes' big boys. They have the most established government and economic superiority. They fight well at both long range and up close depending on the types of units that are fielded. They are essentially the "vanilla army" of Warmachine if there is one.

Circle are a clan of radical druids who dislike the use of technology. They formed to fight against what they see as a crime against their beleifs. They can do well in close combat and have a good deal of spells that will give you a decent edge. Circle is one of the more varied forces in Warmahordes, being able to take a wide range of units, warp wolves, Stone structures imbued with spirits, and other warbeasts.

Squidmanlolz wrote:They have the most established government and economic superiority.

Rhul would like a word with you.

As a bit on Circle's fluff, it's not so much a violation of their ideals is why they hate civilization. They are worried too much of it will cause the eldritch god-monster of chaos and destruction to come back and kill everyone. They'd rather not die, and get loads of power out of it while they're at it much of the time.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote:As a bit on Circle's fluff, it's not so much a violation of their ideals is why they hate civilization. They are worried too much of it will cause the eldritch god-monster of chaos and destruction to come back and kill everyone. They'd rather not die, and get loads of power out of it while they're at it much of the time.

And stuff.

Rather the opposite from my understanding. That's what would happen if the balance shifted too far away from civilization(which represents Order) and towards the wild/Wurm(which represents Chaos). Rather, they oppose civilization and order gaining too much of the balance so that Menoth doesn't gain enough power to destroy the Wurm(Chaos).

It's a balancing act that the Circle plays.

It's basically this:

Too much chaos, the Wurm defeats Menoth, returns to Caen and kills everyone.

Too much order, the Wurm realizes it's being weakened, and comes back to Caen to kill everyone to weaken Menoth.

Pretty much the Circle has it in their interests more or less to keep the Wurm occupied with fighting Menoth. This techncially means that, theoretcially, they should be okay with helping civilization in some instances, but my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote:my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

Kind of, Krueger pretty much started those radical ideals. I think that most of the Circle wanted to punish him for that, but couldn't due to his usefulness. Most of the druids are maintaining balance while some (particularly Krueger) have moved past this and just want to see civilization on its knees.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Blaque wrote:my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

Kind of, Krueger pretty much started those radical ideals. I think that most of the Circle wanted to punish him for that, but couldn't due to his usefulness. Most of the druids are maintaining balance while some (particularly Krueger) have moved past this and just want to see civilization on its knees.

nope, the circle have pretty much always been about plagues, and tsunamis and blighting the harvest. speak to the orgoth, who had most of their soldiers dissolved by rip lung, courtesy of the circle ministrations towards the end of their invasion. and that was 600 odd years ago in the IK timeline.

Deadnight wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Blaque wrote:my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

Kind of, Krueger pretty much started those radical ideals. I think that most of the Circle wanted to punish him for that, but couldn't due to his usefulness. Most of the druids are maintaining balance while some (particularly Krueger) have moved past this and just want to see civilization on its knees.

nope, the circle have pretty much always been about plagues, and tsunamis and blighting the harvest. speak to the orgoth, who had most of their soldiers dissolved by rip lung, courtesy of the circle ministrations towards the end of their invasion. and that was 600 odd years ago in the IK timeline.

Hmm. You learn something new every day.

Thanks for all the info. I'm gonna go with the circle for sure.

Blaque wrote:It's basically this:

Too much chaos, the Wurm defeats Menoth, returns to Caen and kills everyone.

Too much order, the Wurm realizes it's being weakened, and comes back to Caen to kill everyone to weaken Menoth.

Pretty much the Circle has it in their interests more or less to keep the Wurm occupied with fighting Menoth. This techncially means that, theoretcially, they should be okay with helping civilization in some instances, but my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

And stuff.

Yup. Exactly this. I believe it had also been stated that they have assisted with small villages overcoming the wilds in the pasts and helping them grow their crops, then poisoning the well water of that self same village a few years later because their population rates spiked. Most would be content siccing a warpwolf on the odd straggler from a village in order to keep the population low and keep them appropriately respectful of the terrors in the dark. At this point in history, however, things have moved too far and the pace must be stepped up: hence open war as the Circle desperately attempts to cull civilization in order to restore the delicate balancing act they've been treading for millenia. Apparently they feel the best way to keep an eye on the Wurm is to serve it.

I think they're in a bad way, however. The irony here is that they serve the forces of chaos and entropy, but the world, by becoming more civilized and advanced, is wearing down the balance of entropy they were serving. So counter to our normal idea of entropy breaking down civilizations, in this case its breaking down this delicate balance of power between Menoth and the Wurm. The Circle's only hope may be to wipe out the Protectorate of Menoth. I suggest an Alliance with Cryx. Or ocean gods ancient and terrible. From R'llyeh.

Nagashek wrote:

Blaque wrote:It's basically this:

Too much chaos, the Wurm defeats Menoth, returns to Caen and kills everyone.

Too much order, the Wurm realizes it's being weakened, and comes back to Caen to kill everyone to weaken Menoth.

Pretty much the Circle has it in their interests more or less to keep the Wurm occupied with fighting Menoth. This techncially means that, theoretcially, they should be okay with helping civilization in some instances, but my gathering the scale has invariably moved towards, "And we need to introduce some plague or have a tsunami" rather then ever having that in the druidic interests.

And stuff.

Yup. Exactly this. I believe it had also been stated that they have assisted with small villages overcoming the wilds in the pasts and helping them grow their crops, then poisoning the well water of that self same village a few years later because their population rates spiked. Most would be content siccing a warpwolf on the odd straggler from a village in order to keep the population low and keep them appropriately respectful of the terrors in the dark. At this point in history, however, things have moved too far and the pace must be stepped up: hence open war as the Circle desperately attempts to cull civilization in order to restore the delicate balancing act they've been treading for millenia. Apparently they feel the best way to keep an eye on the Wurm is to serve it.

I think they're in a bad way, however. The irony here is that they serve the forces of chaos and entropy, but the world, by becoming more civilized and advanced, is wearing down the balance of entropy they were serving. So counter to our normal idea of entropy breaking down civilizations, in this case its breaking down this delicate balance of power between Menoth and the Wurm. The Circle's only hope may be to wipe out the Protectorate of Menoth. I suggest an Alliance with Cryx. Or ocean gods ancient and terrible. From R'llyeh.

I'll third this to confirm that it's really about keeping the balance. However the world has become so incredibly overrun with civilization, attempting to get balance really just means destroying people's crap 99% of the time. Theoretically if some massive calamity were to befall the lands of mankind threatning civilization with an extinction-level event they'd need to step up and help out the city folk.

That said I'm not sure allying with Cryx is the best means-to-an-end for them. Dragons are basically just pure evil given physical form and super-extra corrupt the hell out of everything they get within miles of. Undead and Draonic corruption are basically a wash at best when it comes to keeping the balance since they're basically as anti-wild a force as exists. At worst you get a wind up in a state of protracted war between the two forces, with both sides basically sapping the wurm.

Honestly the Victory of the Skorne is probably what would most aid in the Circle's goals. Since Skrone souls don't head into the afterlife, presumably even widespread skrone cities would do much less to upset the balance with menoth despite suppressing the wild places.

Of course, we're assuming the Druids are right here. I don't think the Wurm has ever actually returned since the rise of Menoth. Additionally, since that time at least three new gods of risen up all with a vested interest in seeing civilization remain in place. They might be willing to be a bit more interventionist than Caens other gods typically are.

As noted, dragons aren't a good source for Circle allies. Dragon blight apparently poisons things even worse than cities do. The Sharde Islands, where Cryx is, are pretty much utterly ruined for anything productive for any forseeable future. Cryx also utilizes a lot of Orgoth tech, which results in similar long-term damage that simply bulldozing a building with a landslide doesn't fix.

Circle's relationship with the Wurm is actually one of my favorite aspects in how they view it. It's not a form of "worship" like some fantasy settings do with druids, but instead a weird kind of self-motivated parasitism playing on innate talents (the Wilding). And resulting in relationships with cannibals and natural disasters.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote:
Circle's relationship with the Wurm is actually one of my favorite aspects in how they view it. It's not a form of "worship" like some fantasy settings do with druids, but instead a weird kind of self-motivated parasitism playing on innate talents (the Wilding). And resulting in relationships with cannibals and natural disasters.

And stuff.

This is why I like WM/H the best. Most of their fluff doesn't follow a lot of the established cliches that we are all used to. Every faction has their trope, but deviates from the cliches of that trope for the most part.

Go Team Starscream!