Lelith Hesperax?

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**xlEternitylx**

She looks like a CC beast, and if she was buried in a unit of harlequins (or Incubi) she looks like she might wreak something (ignore Harlequins disability in the DE codex, and think Fortune + Doom support). So my question is - how come I haven't seen a single DE player use her? Is she a bust? What's the deal with her?

**Fafnir**

She's still S3, T3, with only a 4++(3++ in close combat) save and no protection from instant death.

She doesn't do very much damage, she can't take a hit, and she offers no utility to the army. There's really no reason to take her unless you really like her fluff or model.

**Ghawhaar**

I felt the same way and it is her s3 that kills her. She hits before anything out there (except maybe banshees or the few I 10 units out there) and has an absolute boatload of attacks. The problem is that 5's to wound heavily negates that. If she had S 4 She could realistically kill anything that would cause her significant worries before it gets a chance to do anything.

**xlEternitylx**

So if the only real issue is her whole S3, with the potential for Allies, would she be fine if she hit a doomed unit? It just seems like with that many attacks, plus power weapon, plus the high initiative (and her 3++ save in CC), she'd be great.

**Eura**

I've had mixed results with lellith. For me she tends to die horribly from shooting or kill everything in sight mainly because I can roll 5's more than I should for wounding. I stick her with harlequins because the're both big hit or miss units. If she somehow manages to get furious charge she drastically gets less lucky dice dependent.

**Doomhunter**

Ghawhaar wrote:I felt the same way and it is her s3 that kills her. She hits before anything out there (except maybe banshees or the few I 10 units out there) and has an absolute boatload of attacks. The problem is that 5's to wound heavily negates that. If she had S 4 She could realistically kill anything that would cause her significant worries before it gets a chance to do anything.

Correct me if im wrong, but dosent she have a 2+ poisoned power weapon?

**xlEternitylx**

No, unfortunately. Just ignores armour saves.

**Ascalam**

Put a pair of Haemonculi in her unit.

It really ups their effectiveness (at least in 5th) with the furious charge and FNP.

If you feel like burning points haemonculi can be quite nasty in CC too, but it gets spendy awful fast..

**Exergy**

She doesnt have combat drugs so she doesnt get the possiblity to reroll to wound or +1 attack normally. Being str3 even with a ton of attacks she doesnt do that much. Drazhar or Vect cost slightly more, are more surviable and do pretty much the same damage. Drazhar's 2+ is now a lot tougher.

**ShadarLogoth**

She's almost perfectly balances to take out an MSU squad every turn, on your opponent's turn. She hits just as hard as she needs to do this. (she reliably kills 2 to 3 MeQ/turn without any PTs)

Her hair (Shards+Implaer), High WS, 3++ and FNP (which will now work against anything not S6 or higher) make her particularly difficult to kill (-1 attack, hitting 5+, wound 3+, 3++ save, 5+ FNP). Also, I haven't checked since the 6th rumors started flowing, but I'm pretty sure her CC power says "ignores armor saves", so she'll but much more deadly in CC against 2+ armor saves then just about anything else in the DE codex.

**Ascalam**

Leliths knives ignore armour saves, not 'count as power weapons '

**ShadarLogoth**

Also, the "watch out sir" is rumored to be any unit within 6", and a 2+ for IC's, which could make her a lot more survivable against shooting as well, just keep throwing wyches/warriors/wracks in the way of her bullets.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As Exergy mentioned though, Drazhar's 2+ is going to make him much more worth his points then he is currently. Now he'll be a super beat stick that shruggs off anything short of a Powerfist.

**Exergy**

ShadarLogoth wrote:
As Exergy mentioned though, Drazhar's 2+ is going to make him much more worth his points then he is currently. Now he'll be a super beat stick that shruggs off anything short of a Powerfist.

and his special rules allow him to move around in combat away from the powerfist. So unless he is stuck in with a bunch of terminators he can avoid the only thing that can hurt him. That and he has EW so he can at least shrug off the first few hits. He is going to be a BEAST

**ShadarLogoth**

Exergy wrote:
ShadarLogoth wrote:
As Exergy mentioned though, Drazhar's 2+ is going to make him much more worth his points then he is currently. Now he'll be a super beat stick that shruggs off anything short of a Powerfist.

and his special rules allow him to move around in combat away from the powerfist. So unless he is stuck in with a bunch of terminators he can avoid the only thing that can hurt him. That and he has EW so he can at least shrug off the first few hits. He is going to be a BEAST

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Wonder how his dance around CC move will work with challenges. Could you move to another part of the CC, and then drag a challenger over to that section with your?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and speaking of challenges, Lelith will often be able to challenge any characters (with power fists in particular) and chop them down good with her higher initiative. Now, of course units that can hide PFists on non character models won't care, but more often then not this should make a difference.

**SoloFalcon1138**

Much like a pack of genestealers, you need to ensure she gets the charge and that she is base-to-base with your opponent's main killer. She is horrible when it comes down to a protracted combat, but great with wyches on the attack.

**quilava1**

Heamons and Archons take up your HQ, plus she can instant die if she fails her 4+ save

**Exergy**

quilava1 wrote:Heamons and Archons take up your HQ, plus she can instant die if she fails her 4+ save

why take an archon if you are going to take her? also her save is 3++ in combat.

The good thing is she can kill Teq before they can strike.

**ShadarLogoth**

quilava1 wrote:Heamons and Archons take up my HQ, plus she can instant die if your opponent, with 1 less attack per base, passes a 5+ to hit her, a 2+ to wound her, and she fails her 3++ save, oh and you failed to kill the PFist in the first place

FIFY.