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OK, so is it ever a good idea, in your opinion, to take 2 lvl 4s?? It's quite popular on the UK tournament scence, and I wondered what Dakka thought aboout it..

I play daemons and TK. I love having magic options even if spells are situational. Hence my 2.4k DOC list has 4 lvl 2's. (Lore master life, metal, lvl 2 horrors, lvl 2 GUO) My 1750 TK list for current month in escalation league has a 4, 2 currently. I am 99% sure that the double l4 is coming, the question is when. 2K or 2250?

A tomb prince is more efficient than a king for getting the WS buffs to the units so that's the goal.

The only concern have for two lvl fours is that you'll rarely generate enough dice to fully use their abilities. They do give you more potential flexibility, but they also usually cost a lot of points for that flexibility.

Now, some armies would work just fine with 2 lvl 4's, like Dark Elfs, but the European tournament scene has some rules that nerf the DE magic phase.

Saldiven wrote:The only concern have for two lvl fours is that you'll rarely generate enough dice to fully use their abilities. They do give you more potential flexibility, but they also usually cost a lot of points for that flexibility.

Now, some armies would work just fine with 2 lvl 4's, like Dark Elfs, but the European tournament scene has some rules that nerf the DE magic phase.

You are complety right, Last night I had a magic phase with the 1500 TK army lvl 4, lvl 2, casket, heirotitan. I cast 5 spells in a phase all of the nehek, soul blight and casket, likely could of done more but wasn't able to get bjuna in range.

Having multiple wizards is so you can cast the right spell at the right time, not so you can cast all their spells all the time.

I take four wizards as Vampire Counts in 2,999 points, but most of them are level 1 so I can spread coverage of invocation of nehek across my army.

It really depends on the lore and the army. For example the armies in which they are most popular (skaven, TK, VC, and lizards) there are generally numerous spells with lower casting values, so you can spam cast lots of small spells or cast 1 big spell without risking your only lvl 4 or general. In my VC army I take 2 lvl 4 master necros and spam cast lots of spells. Even on a below average phase I can reasonably expect to get a couple of spells off. And then when I want to cast a big spell Im not so worried about miscasting with my general (very common with dreaded 13th with skaven).

Yeah, it does depend on the army.

For example, in my HE and DE army, in a 2k - 2.5k range, I'd take a lvl4 and a lvl2, but if I went up to 3k, I may take an extra lvl2.

At 2200 and up, I'm running 2 level 4's with my lizardmen.
Yeah, two slaan, both heavens.
One gets bonus power dice, the other gets lore master heavens.
It gives me 2 comets a turn (only 12+ to cast), and that can do a ton of damage.
It's kind of fun to wreck face with heavens, everyone keeps telling me it sucks, then scratch their heads confused and all hell rains down on the table.

-Matt

I also play TK and I try to get two level 4.

I normaly use casket, scroll of neferal (exelent for getting a suprice smite or puple sunn of two dice as the last spell in a round) and the casket.

My hierotitan usualy is at home (I think he is to expensive)

In a league/campain I am in my detah mage has managed to get the 4+ ward save and the forbidden powerstone.

The thing is that when you have slightly more dice then your oponent you get of one or two spells. But every spell after that is free.

TK can do this, especuialy when the dice end up close (two 4's for instant, or two 1's on the wind of magic)

High elfs can with the banner and the firemage (makes dices)

I also think the slaan keeps getting free magic dices?

At higher level points I've seen a few people use two level 4s against me, and most times it seemed a decent investment in points. Thing is, at higher level points you've generally got a decent spread of units on the field, it's unlikely that another rank of troops on each of your main units probably won't make a difference, and another flanking unit will only crowd your battle line. At those points levels an extra Lvl4 mage can be the best way to spend your last 200-300 points.

It means you can fail a dispel and not lose the ability to dispel at +4 for the rest of the turn. It means you have more spells that are really ideal for the current situation, you're not casting less useful spells because you have spare dice. And it means if one mage explodes you still get to have a magic phase, and still have some defence in his magic phase. And it means any clever wizard assassination plans aren't anywhere near as devestating as they would have been (and those kind of things get more common as you go up in points as well).


With my Empire I've found it a really annoying way of matching my one dice spam with my Warrior Priests - as he can dispel with a single die and not fear losing his +4 by rolling a one or two.