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So, while perusing the Army List forums, I noted that a very large number of IG lists are based around veterans. I personally have no interest in the veteran guard build, and while I don't have a problem with other players using it, I wonder why it appeals to so many.

Veterans can take 3 special weapons with BS4...
They can also take a chimera or drop down from a valkyrie...

Three words:

Cheap. Mechanized. Melta.

They're insanely efficient, points-wise, and reliable. They're fragile if their tanks break, but that's why you take so many.

purplefood wrote:Veterans can take 3 special weapons with BS4...
They can also take a chimera or drop down from a valkyrie...

That and we don't have to buy, paint and shift over a 100 ladz just to play a game.
Vets let you make a very personalized looking force. You'll spend more time on an army of say 80 ladz (full FoC with afew extra) than at the same points cost of 170+ ladz

They're popular because tournaments change 40k in such a way to exclude the rest of the guard codex. People see vet guard doing well at tournaments and erroneously conclude that's the best (or only) way to play guard competitively.

That and it takes a lot less time to model. And some people like the aesthetic.

I play with vet's in my guard because it gives me more options. I treat them as ST's and give them a special assignment because they play vastly different then the rest of my army and most enemies underestimate what determined human's with explosives and special weapon's can do.

Something a lot of people are missing, it's much cheapier and easier to buy, build, paint, and transport 60 veterans an 6 tanks than 160 normal putz guardsmen, and the games take less time too. That is a major factor for many.

They're much more effective than blob guard, with fewer hard counters. 3 special weapons means you can lay down plenty of pain (unfortunately GW hates plasma guns so it has to be meltas), hiding in their metal boxes.
Foot veterans are hardly ever used however. They die, quick time.

People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

That's not completely true Joey, I field foot vets, but then again I also tend to have 2 LRBT's (plane with just a hull LC and HS), 2 LRBT's Exterminators (1 with a dozerblade and HS, the other is fully decked out for being awesome with Pask [that comes to 270pts!]), and 3 hydras Some times 4 armourd senties with 3 scout senties). With all that heavy armour there is no room for the chimmies so the are just sat at the back acting like a light gun line

FifteenHours wrote:People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

Or just don't like losing. My usual opponent is Blood Angels, being charged turn 2 and destroyed by turn 3 gets very boring, very quickly.

Ribon Fox wrote:That's not completely true Joey, I field foot vets, but then again I also tend to have 2 LRBT's (plane with just a hull LC and HS), 2 LRBT's Exterminators (1 with a dozerblade and HS, the other is fully decked out for being awesome with Pask [that comes to 270pts!]), and 3 hydras Some times 4 armourd senties with 3 scout senties). With all that heavy armour there is no room for the chimmies so the are just sat at the back acting like a light gun line

How do they survive in a hybrid list? Your opponant's anti-tank will be blasting away at your vehicles, they'll have nothing to shoot at but those T3 5+ guys, even with a 3+ cover they'll die/flee fast.

Vaktathi wrote:Something a lot of people are missing, it's much cheapier and easier to buy, build, paint, and transport 60 veterans an 6 tanks than 160 normal putz guardsmen, and the games take less time too. That is a major factor for many.

This is the reason I always thought of. Less models means less money and less time to build/paint them and in this case they actually do more on the tabletop.

Joey wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

Or just don't like losing. My usual opponent is Blood Angels, being charged turn 2 and destroyed by turn 3 gets very boring, very quickly.

Ribon Fox wrote:That's not completely true Joey, I field foot vets, but then again I also tend to have 2 LRBT's (plane with just a hull LC and HS), 2 LRBT's Exterminators (1 with a dozerblade and HS, the other is fully decked out for being awesome with Pask [that comes to 270pts!]), and 3 hydras Some times 4 armourd senties with 3 scout senties). With all that heavy armour there is no room for the chimmies so the are just sat at the back acting like a light gun line

How do they survive in a hybrid list? Your opponant's anti-tank will be blasting away at your vehicles, they'll have nothing to shoot at but those T3 5+ guys, even with a 3+ cover they'll die/flee fast.

Wait, I don't understand. How is the opponent's anti-tank going to have a easier time taking out 4 Leman Russ tanks, 3 hydras and a bunch of sentinels than Chimera spam?

Joey wrote:They're much more effective than blob guard, with fewer hard counters. 3 special weapons means you can lay down plenty of pain (unfortunately GW hates plasma guns so it has to be meltas), hiding in their metal boxes.
Foot veterans are hardly ever used however. They die, quick time.

Yeah if you're using them with standard flak armor. Some of us only run a squad of them and slap Harker in the squad. Infiltrate those beauties or outflank em into terrain. They can last the whole game if you use them right. And that's how I use them, as a support or surprise element. Meanwhile the rest of my blob, heavy weapons, and scattered vehicles keep the enemy debating as to which target to kill. The relentless heavy bolter guy with 3 meltas as back up with the demolitions upgrade or the rest of the army that has range on you and how powered weapons? Specialist unit that is a pain in the butt to root out or the rest of the army? Most people choose the rest of the army.

RxGhost wrote:

Joey wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

Or just don't like losing. My usual opponent is Blood Angels, being charged turn 2 and destroyed by turn 3 gets very boring, very quickly.

Ribon Fox wrote:That's not completely true Joey, I field foot vets, but then again I also tend to have 2 LRBT's (plane with just a hull LC and HS), 2 LRBT's Exterminators (1 with a dozerblade and HS, the other is fully decked out for being awesome with Pask [that comes to 270pts!]), and 3 hydras Some times 4 armourd senties with 3 scout senties). With all that heavy armour there is no room for the chimmies so the are just sat at the back acting like a light gun line

How do they survive in a hybrid list? Your opponant's anti-tank will be blasting away at your vehicles, they'll have nothing to shoot at but those T3 5+ guys, even with a 3+ cover they'll die/flee fast.

Wait, I don't understand. How is the opponent's anti-tank going to have a easier time taking out 4 Leman Russ tanks, 3 hydras and a bunch of sentinels than Chimera spam?

They're not. But in 95% of armies, there will be anti-infantry firepower, and anti-tank firepower. The anti-tank stuff will be swinging it out at your vehicles, and the anti-infantry will have nothing to do but shoot at your vets.
Against a typical SM list this means an aweful lot of Autocannons, bolters, heavy bolters, storm bolters, flamers, heavy flamers, blast weapons. And obviously they'll crumple in combat to anyone other than Tau.

As stated above, 3 special weapons per squad. Name another troop choice in the game with the ability to be so flexible. 3 melta, plasma, flamers, grenade launchers, or sniper rifles. Even the only two of those see normal play, maybe snipers as the distant third. In addition, a heavy weapon of some sort. Then, the fact that they get a sweet ride (Chimera) for cheap is great.

The squad in general is not a major point investment with a great return. Those points are better used elsewhere in the heavy support or fast attack slots.

It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

martin74 wrote:It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

Vet Squad:
29.00 = Cadian Plastic Kit
33.00 = 3 Metlagun bits from the Warstore plus shipping
37.25 = Chimera
99.25 USD

Yeah, wow. What a deal, that's almost 150pts right?

RxGhost wrote:

martin74 wrote:It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

Vet Squad:
29.00 = Cadian Plastic Kit
33.00 = 3 Metlagun bits from the Warstore plus shipping
37.25 = Chimera
99.25 USD

Yeah, wow. What a deal, that's almost 150pts right?

There are WAY cheaper ways to get those melta guns man. Look up Imperial Armoury, they're at least half price and have a way better selection.

That said, it's about the same costwise to go either platoon or mech, you're just spending cash in different spots.

RxGhost wrote:

martin74 wrote:It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

Vet Squad:
24.00 = Cadian Squad (New in Box) from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
12.00 = 3 Metlagun bits from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
32.00 = Chimera (New in Box) from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
68.00 USD

Fixed it for you.

10 meltabombs, 9 standard guys, 8 leadership, 7 points a model, 6 shotguns, 5 point flamers, 4 balistic skill, 3 meltaguns, 2 ways to play them, and a demo charge in your face....

catchy tune

I found two places under imperial armoury. One had a single meltagun in stock for ~3 bucks with 3 GBP shipping and 4 "resin meltaguns" that looked like janky homebrews for 2 pounds each.

There was another imperial armoury.co.uk but their website was such a goddamned mess I couldn't even browse it.

Granted, it'd be a cold day in hell before I give thewarstore 33 bucks for 3 melta guns. Even on ebay they're going for ~5 before shipping.

So way cheaper and better selection are out.

http://bitspudlo.com/t/category/216-bitsbox-dot-eu/237-infantry-weapons-and-accessories

For melta (cough) thermic guns.

Briancj wrote:

RxGhost wrote:

martin74 wrote:It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

Vet Squad:
24.00 = Cadian Squad (New in Box) from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
12.00 = 3 Metlagun bits from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
32.00 = Chimera (New in Box) from a random eBay "Buy It Now" Auction, with shipping.
68.00 USD

Fixed it for you.

You didn't fix anything, you just made me a liar the same as you.

I've played mech, gunline and blob guard, they're all fun, but blob guard takes a million years to transport, set up, move and then pack up. Mech hardly takes as long, even a foot vet gunline doesn't take as long.

RxGhost wrote:

martin74 wrote:It is also cheaper to build a vet squad as compared to an infantry platoon.

Vet Squad:
29.00 = Cadian Plastic Kit
33.00 = 3 Metlagun bits from the Warstore plus shipping
37.25 = Chimera
99.25 USD

Yeah, wow. What a deal, that's almost 150pts right?

The Warstore is a horrible place to buy most bits.

RxGhost wrote:I found two places under imperial armoury. One had a single meltagun in stock for ~3 bucks with 3 GBP shipping and 4 "resin meltaguns" that looked like janky homebrews for 2 pounds each.

The resin ones are FW Elysian Melta gun

I play an armageddon steel legion melta vet list. Its somewhat fluffy and looks awesome on table top. In no way did I cheap out on it - the price wasn't a concern I got all DKOK models and painted as legion, it's the stopping power the list has and playing with tons of tanks is pretty fun. And turns go faster when you move 9 tanks and 3 vendettas a turn rather than a hundred men.

FifteenHours wrote:People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

No interest in fluff, care more about winning? Give me a break. Maybe in your limited exposure, but don't stereo type players as a result of using vet squads(which of the best coolest units in the codex).

Surely you jest.

FifteenHours wrote:People who take a Chimera-Vets army generally have no real interest in the fluff, are simply too lazy or busy to build and paint blob or hybrid guard, or care more about winning than most as they are - quite erroneously - seen as the most competitive build.

The Armageddon Steel Legion would beg to differ.

I like running chimera vets not because it is a 1-2-3-win list, but because I based my regiment on the old armored company rules; tank heavy and supported by armored fist squads (10 man squads in chimeras).