Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is my send-off battle report for 5th edition. And what better way to end it than to play against an army that I've wanted to play against for some time now - footdar! I was hoping to go up against Reece's footdar last time, but because he forgot to bring it, I ended up playing against tyranids. This time, I am playing against Gus and instead of bringing his Tau, he brought his eldar. And what better way to end this edition than to try and crush my arch-nemesis....Eldrad!


------------------------------------------------------------


My list:

Necrons 2K

I only brought 2 night scythes and 2 annihilation barges this time because I didn't want to use proxies for them. Unfortunately, my wraiths are not done so I am still using proxies for them. My scythes are also unfinished, but at least I'm using the actual models now.


Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Res Orb, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge
1x Cryptek - Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge

5x Warriors
Night Scythe
5x Warriors
Night Scythe
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Caster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Caster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Caster

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge



Eldar 2K

Avatar
Eldrad

5x Fire Dragons - Exarch w/Firepike + Crackshot
9x Harlequins - All Kisses, 1x Death Jester, 1x Shadowseer
8x Harlequins - All Kisses, 1x Death Jester, 1x Shadowseer

10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/Dual Catapults + Bladestorm
10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/Dual Catapults + Bladestorm
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
3x Guardian Jetbikes

Wraithlord - Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher, 2x Flamers
Wraithlord - Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher, 2x Flamers
Wraithlord - Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher, 2x Flamers


-------------------------------------------------------------------



Mission: Seize Ground - 5x Objectives

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Eldar


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Battle report will be out tomorrow....

Nice, look forward to seeing the send off report.

I am curious to see how this army adapts to 6th ed....I love my new wraith models too much to replace them now!

Looking forward to this as a final cast off to 5th edition. I feel like I know 5th inside out (It has not become stale for me yet, probably because I never get in as many games as I want durn kids!), but I am excited to see the changes.

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons
I think I should be able to take this one. Other than a unit of fire dragons and 3 wraithlords, he doesn't really have much that can take out my vehicles. And then he's got 18 wraiths to contend with as well. However, what will be his downfall will be his lack of mobility. As with my last game against him, I plan on winning by controlling the board. And I plan on controlling the board by playing aggressive as normal. This is basically my philosophy of Positional Dominance....that is, by controlling the game in the Movement phase. That's one of the subtleties of why a necron wraithwing build can be so good. They're almost as fast as mechdar/deldar and arguably even more resilient than even mechdar.

I think the key to beating eldar lies in the Avatar. He's got to go.


Eldar:
2 things footdar has going for Gus is 1) good mid-range firepower and 2) excellent counter-assault. I need to respect both (but....heh, heh....I don't, not really). Doom and Guide followed by focus-fire will deal a world of hurt to my wraiths, though he'll probably only get 1 chance to use it before I am upon him. But probably even more dangerous than his shooting is his counter-assault. Harlequins are very dangerous in combat, especially when combined with Fortune, though I did wipe out a unit of them and Vect that last time I played against them. However, that was only 1 unit. Now I'm going up against 2. Then he's got 3 very tough wraithlords and the Avatar on top of that. Lastly, he can use Eldrad as a tarpit to tie up any of my assaulty units if needed.

His downfall will be if he lets me box him inside his own deployment. If I do so, then no matter how many wraiths he kills, he won't be able to reach the objectives with the exception of his jetbikes. He's got to make a play for the objectives early.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, that's a lot of Harlequins! This will be an interesting match up. Both armies have a lot of assault capabilities. I look forward to reading the results.

Deployment:


Map of the terrain with the 5 objectives.

I actually win the initiative but decide to let eldar go first.


Eldar deployment. The "Nightbringer" is his Avatar of Khaine. Eldrad joins the dire avengers in the middle.

He leaves his guardian jetbikes in reserves.


Necron deployment. I apologize for the wraiths, but my actual wraith models aren't done yet. Neither are my night scythes, but they are useable enough for this report.

I leave 2 units of warriors in reserves.

My strategy is to flank him on both sides. 2 wraiths will go after 1 flank. 1 wraith and both surflords (Overlords on barges) will go after the opposite flank. If he commits to one side, then I will have 2 free objectives on the opposite side. If he castles up in the middle....which is what I want him to do....then I will trap him in his corner and take the 3 outer objectives. Now if he splits up his army to fight my 2 flanks, he will be in trouble. I don't think he can fight half of my army with half of his.


My opponent then infiltrates 1 unit of pathfinders in his corner (using my crypteks as proxies).


He then infiltrates the other unit of pathfinders into the ruins by his deployment zone.


Overview of our deployment.

I don't try to steal the initiative and we begin.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Eldar 1




Necron 1




Eldar 2




Necron 2




Eldar 3




Necron 3




Eldar 4




Necron 4

Wow, I love seeing those NS, models are awesome! Should be a good one!

Battle report completed.

SabrX wrote:Wow, that's a lot of Harlequins! This will be an interesting match up. Both armies have a lot of assault capabilities. I look forward to reading the results.

I am of the opinion that footdar needs some more shooting. I think some scatter war walkers may benefit this army somewhat.

Red Corsair wrote:Wow, I love seeing those NS, models are awesome! Should be a good one!

Yeah, those scythes are just fricking sic. Now with them being flyers, don't be surprised if you see more of them in my future necron builds.



By the ways, coming up Thurs - Jy2's Wraithwing vs Janthkin's ? - A Comprehensive 6th Edition battle report.

Though I still think wraithwing builds are decent I feel 6th set them back a bit. I mean night fight is useless to the wraiths who have a 3++, CCB's are still strong just a bit different so this is maybe a wash but the fliers having to come on turn 2 from reserve makes adding the threat of Doom Scythes less affective. Add in random assaults and closest first wound allocation and I just am not sure they will handle this new shootier flier filled format. What are your thoughts so far?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, good game! I had trouble not applying the new rules to every situation though... but that was a fun exercise as well

I think that they're still going to be strong. They were designed with 6th in mind and take advantage of a lot of the new rules. Flyers rock even if the have to start off in reserves. Necrons are probably the first army to have actual chariots. MSS lords are just made for challenges. And tesla destructors are just frickin sic. Even shooting in snap shot mode, they'll average 3-6 hits! And wraiths still rock, especially now with a potential 24" charge range, and they didn't get the power weapon nerf. BTW, warscythes are AP1!

As a matter of fact, necrons are so good now that I don't really see the need for them to ally with any other army.

BTW, no more No Retreat saves makes up somewhat for lack of wound allocation on wraiths now. Heck, all fearless armies - daemons and nids - have become just that much better.

Yea I agree, I just think that major strategies will have to change. The new night fight rules and rules for spotlights and night vision really make solar pulses much much worse for them, and mostly to the wraiths, and since you can't assault fliers I feel like scarabs and wraiths are that much worse. I think the fearless buff is biggest for scarabs, with their new speed (did they need it lol) now they are at worst, a tar pit from hell ha ha. I agree they don't need allies, but I fear they do need to take their own fliers but honestly who wouldn't.

I think Lych guard in a night scythe with a lord will be absolutely terrifying! A few off those full strength units coming on turn two and deploying 24-36 up the field is nuts.

I will just say, first person who assaults the fortress of redemption with scarabs gets a cookie

There will be some changes to how you play them, but it wouldn't be anything major. Now solar pulses are not as useful as before, but a wraithwing build never really relied on them. As for wraiths not being able to hit flyers, they don't need to. You have tesla destructors for that. What's more, guns on flyers could have the skyfire rule so that scythes become actually really good at dealing with other flyers and I believe even flying monstrous creatures.

I'm still not convinced about lychguards. After they disembark, they still have issues of mobility, though I suppose the 2D6" charge helps for all of the slower assault units. While lychguard may be scary against MEQ's, wraiths are now better against TEQ's (units w/2+ saves) due to rending. And I anticipate that the new power builds - the next iteration of competitive 40k armies - will include a lot of TEQ's and 2+ units, but I guess this topic probably deserves an entire thread of its own.

Of course, all this is theoryhammer. I suspect my wraithwing will still be strong without needing to tweak it too much, and I hope to share my experiences with them to all the readers in a few upcoming battles that I have planned for them.

I still think they are an awesome build, don't get me wrong, but that thankfully now they are a better representation of their points. I also think that two units of wraiths and a unit of scarabs are a much more viable and flexible build now that fearless saves have disappeared. I think you have a good point about tesla destructers but remember without interceptor and the Necron short range it could still prove difficult to take on multiple flier builds.

I think (and this is all theory) that lych guard may now be on par with wraiths due to the fact that they are actually better at taking out TEQ's with their warscythes, and can also regroup as long as they have a lord no matter what the circumstance. T5, 3+, 4++ resurrection with a semp weave character up front is absolutely crazy, add in any defensive cryptek and it crazy what these could run through. Heck they get you another NS as well.

As far as TEQ'd running 6th I am hesitant as assault is not something to rely on any more with these foot builds and a torrent of fire will still drop these guys. Also I can't stress enough how big a deal fliers are going to be. 10 terminators or 4 NS? I will place my bet on the 4 NS every time as the termies CC output is meaning less.

Looking forward to seeing you test the wraiths out in the new format, I hope janthkin brings something that can really utilize the 6th edition rules for the test. It will be fun regardless but I think all armies gained new potential and it will take a while to sort it out.

jy, I'd like to see your MTO Necrons in the new 6th rules. I think with the devastating abilities of Wraiths, CCB, and Doomscythes, we are going to see several really viable Necron lists where everything on the table is a credible threat to an opposing army.

I think there are clever ways to deal with multi wound units though now. For example, tyranids have access to enfeeble through biomancy which could reduce wraiths toughness to 3 allowing TL devourers to mulch them lol. Though I don't think nids really have trouble with wraiths any ways. Having no psychic defense other then the odd 6 is really going to hurt some armies without taking allies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

BTW, no more No Retreat saves makes up somewhat for lack of wound allocation on wraiths now. Heck, all fearless armies - daemons and nids - have become just that much better.

I feel this hurts wraiths more then it helps them, no longer will they chew through mobs of gaunts or orks. Heck without those no retreat saves even marines became MUCH more resilient in CC to them and using combat tactics has literally no draw back. Even footdar using large units of guardians will manage to last alot longer, in 5th 6 wraiths hits 20 guardians and manages 16 hits, 3 rends and 10 additional saves for lets round to 7 more casualties. They strike back and will manage one wound if they are lucky, thats 9 no retreat saves for 6 more dead. In the eldar turn you mop up the 4 left and are free to act in your turn. In sixth 10 will remain, so in the next round the wraiths hit 12 times, two rends, 8 saves six more die for 2 left to hold you for your own turn!!!!!! I will admit this is a text book case of mathhammer but it illustrates how much wraiths relied on no retreat themselves to kill opposition.

drakkenj wrote:jy, I'd like to see your MTO Necrons in the new 6th rules. I think with the devastating abilities of Wraiths, CCB, and Doomscythes, we are going to see several really viable Necron lists where everything on the table is a credible threat to an opposing army.

My MTO crons have actually taken a hit in 6th. Yes, scarabs have gotten better, but that list doesn't have the ability to deal with massed flyers. Right now, to compete in 6th, you need shooting. That's why I'll be running my wraithwing/tesla-spam necrons in competitive games. They are a more balanced army.

Red Corsair wrote:I think there are clever ways to deal with multi wound units though now. For example, tyranids have access to enfeeble through biomancy which could reduce wraiths toughness to 3 allowing TL devourers to mulch them lol. Though I don't think nids really have trouble with wraiths any ways. Having no psychic defense other then the odd 6 is really going to hurt some armies without taking allies.

True enough. In that respect, if they don't run spyders, necrons will have no choice but to take it up the arse. Psychic powers are going to be one of their few weaknesses.

y2 wrote:

BTW, no more No Retreat saves makes up somewhat for lack of wound allocation on wraiths now. Heck, all fearless armies - daemons and nids - have become just that much better.

I feel this hurts wraiths more then it helps them, no longer will they chew through mobs of gaunts or orks. Heck without those no retreat saves even marines became MUCH more resilient in CC to them and using combat tactics has literally no draw back. Even footdar using large units of guardians will manage to last alot longer, in 5th 6 wraiths hits 20 guardians and manages 16 hits, 3 rends and 10 additional saves for lets round to 7 more casualties. They strike back and will manage one wound if they are lucky, thats 9 no retreat saves for 6 more dead. In the eldar turn you mop up the 4 left and are free to act in your turn. In sixth 10 will remain, so in the next round the wraiths hit 12 times, two rends, 8 saves six more die for 2 left to hold you for your own turn!!!!!! I will admit this is a text book case of mathhammer but it illustrates how much wraiths relied on no retreat themselves to kill opposition.

Yeah, NR is a boon for fearless, horde armies. That's why I think tyranids have become better this edition. Same with daemons and the green tide. Now they can put the Swarmlord into combat along with 20 termagants and don't have to worry about him dying from killed gants. Tervigons with their freebie gants have just become that much more better/annoying and scarabs, man, if you can't insta-kill them, you don't want to be stuck in combat with them.

But overall, I'm beginning to hate the lack of NR. It also makes combat so much slower with the amount of dice you have to roll against some armies. I guess it's a double-edged sword.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Corsair wrote:I still think they are an awesome build, don't get me wrong, but that thankfully now they are a better representation of their points. I also think that two units of wraiths and a unit of scarabs are a much more viable and flexible build now that fearless saves have disappeared. I think you have a good point about tesla destructers but remember without interceptor and the Necron short range it could still prove difficult to take on multiple flier builds.

Crons don't have much problems against flyers. That's because right now, probably necrons and IG have the only 2 competitive flyer builds. And skyfire teslas work great against other flyers. However, I must warn that if you bring too many flyers (i.e. spammed flyers), you will unbalance your army and have a difficult time against certain builds.

I think (and this is all theory) that lych guard may now be on par with wraiths due to the fact that they are actually better at taking out TEQ's with their warscythes, and can also regroup as long as they have a lord no matter what the circumstance. T5, 3+, 4++ resurrection with a semp weave character up front is absolutely crazy, add in any defensive cryptek and it crazy what these could run through. Heck they get you another NS as well.

Will have to give them a try sometimes.

As far as TEQ'd running 6th I am hesitant as assault is not something to rely on any more with these foot builds and a torrent of fire will still drop these guys. Also I can't stress enough how big a deal fliers are going to be. 10 terminators or 4 NS? I will place my bet on the 4 NS every time as the termies CC output is meaning less.

Looking forward to seeing you test the wraiths out in the new format, I hope janthkin brings something that can really utilize the 6th edition rules for the test. It will be fun regardless but I think all armies gained new potential and it will take a while to sort it out.

Going TEQ heavy will also unbalance one's army. They're in the same situation as my MTO crons. They're good....but they just can't handle flyers. They need to be balanced out with shooting.

Just played against Janthkin and it was awesome. Some of the changes to 6th requires some getting used to and some of it I didn't really like, but I think that's just because I'm too used to 5th edition rules. But man, it was another classic, hard-fought battle. And yes, we both brough homogenous armies. I brought what was basically my normal wraithwing and he brought his nids. Both lists were tweaked slightly but not changed too much.

Awesome responses man, I agree with pretty much everything you said. While I hated NR for some reasons, I know it did serve a good function.

Yea it will take everyone a while to really explore the new fliers and builds and come up with truly well rounded lists.

Will you be posting your battle with Janthkin? would love to read that one if so. Maybe just a quick right up if you don't have the time for your usual standard?