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My precious wych cult looks to be in rough shape. The vehicles died fast anyways, so the hull point change isn't such a big deal to raiders/venoms.

What is a big deal is that the wychs have a shorter assault range, more variance in assault range and will suffer from overwatch - possibly reducing the assault range further. Their agonizers got nerfed, so now I have no answer to 2+ armour saves in CC. Losing no retreat wounds means that if you don't win outright, you are more susceptible to losing the war of attrition.

My wychs are crying in a corner right now. Anyone see something that mitigates these changes?

You do not know for sure if agonizers got nerfed, the faq may make the hurt go away. You do not know that we wont be able to take our dodge save against overwatch because the designers might allow it to help keep things balanced.

However, having said that, even if the FAQ doesn't do anything to help, you can always take HQs with 2+ saves to lead your units. Two archons or that one SC with the 2+. Thus if they are leading the charge, you will get your save vs all those overwatch hits. You can also take an Eldar HQ and use their psychic power to doom the unit you are attacking thus your somewhat whittled down unit will still hit just as hard.

Overall, the FAQ will determine everything. We are just going to have to wait for that before any real issues can be called.

Additionally, instead of taking the wyches infantry hunting, arming them with Haywire grenades makes them devastating against vehicles. A unit of 10 will easily strip 6 hull points off of any vehicle.

No luck for Agonizers, they're just power weapons that always wound on 4+(so are AP3)

Wytches really got whacked, although they are still good against anything that doesn't have a 2+ save. Which they probably shouldn't have been trying to kill anyway.

Wychs had a reasonable chance to take TDA units in 5th.

Now anything with a 2+ armour save is all but immune to my 20 wychs, 10 bloodbrides and succubus : /

Grey Templar wrote:No luck for Agonizers, they're just power weapons that always wound on 4+(so are AP3)

Wytches really got whacked, although they are still good against anything that doesn't have a 2+ save. Which they probably shouldn't have been trying to kill anyway.

Please explain. Wyches were a mediocre assault unit (but still good for their points) before these nerfs, now from a competitive standpoint they're unusable.

Yeah actually if you do the mathhammer against even MEQ units now they don't really have a great chance of winning. Overwatch weakens them to the point that they will likely lose by attrition.


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Overwatch from boltguns alone kills 2 models average, with a flamer potentially doing another 1.5. Losing that much before even having the chance to strike is too much.

Don't they get 3+2D6 armour penetration? That's an average of 10. With vehicles now at most 3+ to hit, and how many attacks on the charge?
So they can waste any vehicle in CC that's not a Monolith or Land Raider.

They have haywire grenades. Good against any vehicle.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:They have haywire grenades. Good against any vehicle.

They'll likely never make into assault with a vehicle now that they can't disembark froma raider/venom that flew 12 inches.

Also, De already has very good anti-tank: assaulting armor with CC units is way overkill.

And if you really want haywires, you can get haywire blasters on faster, more survivable units.

Wyches were never meant for wiping terminators out, but they were a good solution for tarpitting them for a turn or 2 and killing the odd model during the melee.

You can still disembark from a open topped vehicle that moved 12"

DaKKaLAnce wrote:You can still disembark from a open topped vehicle that moved 12"

No. No you cannot, unless you are a necron exiting a flyer.

You can still assault from the vehicle (Can't assault from the webway portal though *grumble grumble grumble*)

However you can take a Lance pistol, even better than an agoniser because you get to use its profile in combat

Sephyr wrote:Wyches were never meant for wiping terminators out, but they were a good solution for tarpitting them for a turn or 2 and killing the odd model during the melee.

I used wychs quite nicely against TEQ, with my Succubus/bloodbrides even being a straight up counter. I'll have to do some mathhammer at some point to be sure, but the Succubus/bloodbride unit doesn't look like it will even be worth it to engage TEQ. Since bloodbrides are just as vulnerable to overwatch as wychs, the whole concept might be FUBAR now. I'm going to give it some time/games, but it really looks bad for my wych cult.


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lord_bobbington wrote:You can still assault from the vehicle (Can't assault from the webway portal though *grumble grumble grumble*)

However you can take a Lance pistol, even better than an agoniser because you get to use its profile in combat

Edit: also total range of assaulting from a vehicle has a higher variance and is slightly less than before. Its much more likely to fail at any given distance value.

AFAIK the pistol in combat was pancake edition, not actually in 6th.

I thought they keep the rules for fast transports? allowing you to still disembark at 12"?!

Can't disembark if you move further than 6". Open topped can still assault on the same turn you disembark, but are restricted to the new 6" limit on disembarking after moving.

So now you have a range that looks like this in 6th

6" vehicle move + 6" disembark move + 2d6" assault move = 14-24"

5th was

12" vehicle move + 2" disembark move + d6" run + 6" assault = 21-26"

I call that a massive nerf.

Dracos wrote:

AFAIK the pistol in combat was pancake edition, not actually in 6th.

It was, you're right, I was just now reading the book and reread it that part again, you don't use them. Probably to make sure people don't do that

I waited 13 years for this?

Really overwatch makes me feel that any assault units that don't have above average toughness and/or armor saves are going to go the way of the buffalo.

helium42 wrote:Really overwatch makes me feel that any assault units that don't have above average toughness and/or armor saves are going to go the way of the buffalo.

You are going to have to take a Haemonculus with each Wych squad; no exceptions. The FNP will help balance out overwatch.

Yes, Wyches were nerfed, but they are still good. You just have to use them much more tactically now.

How about having allies with your army, you can get a farseer in your squad and gain them invulnerable saves outside of combat

The silver lining... well not really

Wych hextrix can take a PGL for 10 points. Why would you take a PGL on a unit with plasma grenades? for the defensive grenades. Now defensive grenades give you stealth if the firer is within 8"(like in charnge range) so you get stealth for your overwatch hits.


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you can also take a force ax. its a big hit to go from init 6 to init 1 but +1 strength and 10 points less than an agonzier. or you can take a venom blade and wound on 2+ for practically nothing.


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also, vehicles exploding are now strength 4 hits, regardless of open topped or not. nerf to wyches

Darklight wrote:

helium42 wrote:Really overwatch makes me feel that any assault units that don't have above average toughness and/or armor saves are going to go the way of the buffalo.

You are going to have to take a Haemonculus with each Wych squad; no exceptions. The FNP will help balance out overwatch.

Yes, Wyches were nerfed, but they are still good. You just have to use them much more tactically now.

Tactically how?

If there was a way to prevent overwatch, I'd agree. But even pinned units can still overwatch. The only option is to pump so much firepower into their target that they can't overwatch with any real danger, but by that point the charge itslef may as well be moot.

The only way I can see to spare wyches from OW fire is to charge them into something already engaged, or charge them alongside something even more tempting to shoot at, like Bloodbrides who are just as fragile but more dangerous.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:The only way I can see to spare wyches from OW fire is to charge them into something already engaged, or charge them alongside something even more tempting to shoot at, like Bloodbrides who are just as fragile but more dangerous.

use wracks as a screen for wyches. charge with the wracks first and then follow up with the wyches. with 3-400 points you should be able to take down a unit of grey hunters.

Nice. Hadn't noticed that you resolve charges as you declare them rather than declare all of them and then resolve all of them. That does make it easier for you to sacrifice a squad of wracks to get your wyches into combat.