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Alright, just quickly: ML profiles changed up game wide if you aren't eldar. Flakk is there, right in the back of the book, I'm pretty sure, given the preponderance of fliers in codices, that they want you to use it. It might say, 'Given an upgrade' in the front of the book, but the back has no such prevarication.

Now to the big stuff for C:SM as I've read it in the book:
>Power Swords/Axes/Mauls: be sure to read all the special rules, not just the "holy cow, +X strength!". Unwieldy doesn't refer to ability to use pistols, just the initiative of the weapon (making axes a S+1 powerfist, essentially).

>Combat squads can get into the same transport. Finally.

>All models count as being equipped with a close combat weapon if one isn't listed with the 'melee' tag on the model. Pistols don't have a 'melee' tag. Awesome times, commencing.

>Wounds are rolled for shooting, saves are taken, then models removed from the front. If saves are mixed (weird cases where cover or armor saves are taken within a unit on a model by model basis) then you roll saves from the front (until the model dies) and then proceed backwards.

>Whether or not a model is stationary is done on a model by model basis, not a unit by unit basis. Hey there, Mr. Lascannon, good to see you unmoved and in coherency.

>You can snap shoot out of a firing point at something assaulting the thing with the firing point.

>Out of sight, out of mind: if the enemy can't see it, it can't take failed saves. Period.

>Focus fire: force saves onto models with a chosen cover save or worse, lose any un allocated failed saves as a result.

>Fir rapid fire weapons once at max range while moving or once at max range while standing. Conflicts with earlier reports.

>Charging is 2d6 modified by unit type and terrain. Its gonna get derpy.

>Pile in 3" at the start of a model's initiative step, interesting in terms of keeping wounds off of important low initiative people...

>Gone are the days of firing at BS while falling back, welcome to the world of the loneliest number.

>Acute senses lets you 'track' prey while outflanking. Seriously, you can reroll for sides if you can smell their pungent body odor.

>Psychic hoods are to keep debuffs and psi-shooting off your own units, gone are the days of canceling Guide from 24" away.

>Blind is like paroxysm for bullets. You really want that USR on your 'nades/weapons. Right now, I can only see it on psi-shooting attacks.

>Furious charge isn't going to let the bezerkers go first in combat anymore, though it is otherwise unchanged.

>WOOHOO, assault marines get the thing nids lost: bioplasma (I kid, I kid, they actually named it Hammer of Wrath and a lot of units in different codices can get it. Free attack at users unmodified strength at I10)

>Hatred is a bad, single turn form of preferred enemy. Don't know why they put it in the book...

>OH GOD RUN AWAY (but not in those words) is an actual rule. If you can't hurt the thing you're fighting, you can choose to lose combat and get the hell out of Dodge.

>Lots of "giant wall of text rules in multiple codices" condensed down into "Two word USR". Too many to list (pyschic pilot, for example).

>Shrouded hurts a lot of units in many ways. Gone are the days of not being seen, here, of getting a static bonus to cover saves (even in open terrain) the days have come young padawans

>Rage got a huge massive, ungodly buff. Goodbye car chasing, hello blood claw style charges.

>What the hell mounts macro-cannons. Please, somebody tell me so I can get in on that codex. Think large blast autocannons.

>Templates hit at full strength, regardless of how much of the template isn't over the vehicle (AHAHAHAHAHA, Chapter Master's of the world, UNITE!)

>Heavy chainswords? So, you want to give me a relic blade without the power weapon-ness? Will it be free? Please make it free....

>Chaplain got HOSED. Went from ignoring armor saves to an AP4 relic maul. Well, I guess we know why its an (old and busted) relic.

>Grenades can be thrown just over the old charging distance with a variety of effects. They can also be used as single attack weapons in CC. This one is going to be freaking tactical when you're up against monstrous creatures... nah, who am I kidding. Guardsman, prime those kraks, we've got a Carnifex coming in.

>Challenges are too complicated for me to describe here, but suffice it to say that CC got even more tactical than it had before. Don't want your nob to fight my sergeant? Well, then it just can't attack this turn. Neaner neaner.

>Psykers are not as good as everyone is making them out to be. In fact, psykers in general are what help to nerf (via force weapons) the GK codex. The powers are a mixed bag and randomly chosen... a lot of you are going to be disappointed with half the powers in any given discipline (except Divination which is full on rocket sauce regardless of what power you get).

>Vehicles are not a whole lot different aside from the hull points thing. Minor distance, rule, and effectiveness tweaks but nothing people won't pick up after the first reading. Disembarking for instance: move up to 6" and disembark your dudes within 6" of a door; any farther and you're stuck inside. Simple.

>Flyers are hilarious and tricky. If you move wrong or get stuck at a certain speed (happens on immobilized and on other not so handy occasions) you are going to end up off of the board and in the 'rolling reserves' twilight zone. I wouldn't count on these guys being when or where you need them without a few games of practice.

>Walkers now get attacked on their back armor when immobilized. No sign of 'hits on 6s when attacking a walker with nades'.

>AP2 does what AP1 did on the damage table. AP1 doubled its effectiveness on the damage table.

>You can assault a unit hiding on the battlements of a bastion (or in another section of the same building) by charging up the interior stairs. Its done in imagination land, sure, but you can still pull it off.

>On the topic of bastions: BWAHAHAHAHA... you can chuck nades in through windows with effects similar to that of flamers. Good luck hiding in there boys.

>I think this is honestly telling me that the quad guns and icarus lascannons on defensive lines are critters with half the vitality of a carnifex and a little more toughness.

>God help you if you find an archeotech artefact.

>The fortress of redemption looks like the "HURR DURR BUY ME OR LOSE" option for all Imperial players. Land raider cost, three land raider tough sections, despicably killy weapons and the option to tack on bastion bolters. What a freaking mess...

>I suspect people will choose terrain elements before a battle begins rather than roll on a table. For instance, how much fun would it be to play a game where you march a unit of marines into a river only to find out that THE FLOOR IS LAVA, HOLY BALLS and lose a marine or two? Not so much.

>Did you ever model a guy with two plasma pistols? Might want to dig him out, that little guy can fire both now and they ain't twin linked.

That's all I've got, have fun reading through this beast when you get it (the first thing you should do is turn to the fold out between pages 186 and 187. It'll blow your mind).

Haha well this was fun, and a good summerary really. Nice work and I agree

Trondheim wrote:Haha well this was fun, and a good summerary really. Nice work and I agree

Thanks! Also, a quick word on Tau. You want to make a 30" high Tau Fort and have your ethereal jump off of it to his death (a legal move now, and a voluntary one) each and every single game. The benefits of preferred enemy in the shooting phase and a fort to house your firewarriors is just too great.

Slackermagee wrote:
>What the hell mounts macro-cannons. Please, somebody tell me so I can get in on that codex. Think large blast autocannons.

Spaceships mount macro cannons (their fething massive as the name suggests)

I also noticed the thing about Macron Cannons....there only on spacecraft as far as I know. The profile for the Vulcan Mega Bolter is also given, despite the fact its only on Apocalypse units.

If you look back in the fluff, Vindicators were originally equipped with thunderer cannons before they demolisher cannons came along. Thunderer cannons are modified breach blocks of macro cannons.

Pistols do have the "Melee" tag, when used in melee. They use the standard close combat weapon profile. So Marines don't get a bonus attack

narked wrote:Pistols do have the "Melee" tag, when used in melee. They use the standard close combat weapon profile. So Marines don't get a bonus attack

regular marines dont have a close combat weapon AND a pistol? for two close combat weapons?

Phragonist wrote:

narked wrote:Pistols do have the "Melee" tag, when used in melee. They use the standard close combat weapon profile. So Marines don't get a bonus attack

regular marines dont have a close combat weapon AND a pistol? for two close combat weapons?

No, they have boltguns and CCW. No bolt pistols.

Testify wrote:

Phragonist wrote:

narked wrote:Pistols do have the "Melee" tag, when used in melee. They use the standard close combat weapon profile. So Marines don't get a bonus attack

regular marines dont have a close combat weapon AND a pistol? for two close combat weapons?

No, they have boltguns and CCW. No bolt pistols.

Um, vanilla marines have a boltgun, a bolt pistol and no CCW.

Oppressor wrote:

Testify wrote:

Phragonist wrote:

narked wrote:Pistols do have the "Melee" tag, when used in melee. They use the standard close combat weapon profile. So Marines don't get a bonus attack

regular marines dont have a close combat weapon AND a pistol? for two close combat weapons?

No, they have boltguns and CCW. No bolt pistols.

Um, vanilla marines have a boltgun, a bolt pistol and no CCW.

I dont have the rulebook in front of me a the moment, but i am almost positive that it says you only the +1 attack if have BOTH a close combat weapon and pistol.

Ok, on the Challenges:
>Some said they the two Challengers Fought until one was dead, and then you moved on.

Does it say anything about WYSIWYG “Power Weapons?”
>I have a Wolf Priest armed with a Power Axe, is a Power Maul or is it a Power Axe?

Warp Charges:
>The little I have gotten to Read is it you get 1 Charge per Turn or one Per Turn, Per Level?

If its an Axe, its an Axe. Maul refers to blunt weapons like Maces and Staves.

Warp Charges are one warp charge per turn per level. So a Mastery Level 3 Psyker gets 3 Warp Charges.

Grey Templar wrote:If its an Axe, its an Axe. Maul refers to blunt weapons like Maces and Staves.

Warp Charges are one warp charge per turn per level. So a Mastery Level 3 Psyker gets 3 Warp Charges.

The thing is, Wolf Priests have a Crozius Arcanum, which is now a Power Maul.

Anpu42 wrote:Does it say anything about WYSIWYG “Power Weapons?”
>I have a Wolf Priest armed with a Power Axe, is a Power Maul or is it a Power Axe?

If the ruling from C:SM applies, than Crozius is always a power maul regardless of modelling. Crozius is listed as (power weapon) in C:SW though, which makes me think you can choose based off how it is modeled. So your WP has a Power Axe.

In which case you are guilty of MFA.

Grey Templar wrote:In which case you are guilty of MFA.

MFA would be lets add an Axe to get a 2nd Attack.
This Model has had the Axe for 2 years

Grey Templar wrote:In which case you are guilty of MFA.

Not in this case, since the rules specifically tell you to check the model to see what it is armed with. If that was MFA (putting an axe on a model capable of using one) then adding a meltagun would also be modeling for advantage.

There is no Wolf Priest model. Only Ulrik the Slayer.

You must be using the Rune Priest model as a Wolf Priest, which make that model illegal to use as a Wolf Priest. Unless you clarify with your opponent that its actually a Wolf Priest and he has a Power Maul not an Axe.

Grey Templar wrote:There is no Wolf Priest model. Only Ulrik the Slayer.

You must be using the Rune Priest model as a Wolf Priest, which make that model illegal to use as a Wolf Priest. Unless you clarify with your opponent that its actually a Wolf Priest and he has a Power Maul not an Axe.

There's no rule that says you can't create your own Wolf Priest model from the Space Wolves box set. And there is, in fact, another Wolf Priest (although he has a Crozius). Check P67 of the SW Codex.

I don't see any Wolf Priests avaliable here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440279a&rootCatGameStyle=

You will need to model your Wolf Priest with a Maul/Stave of some kind for him to be legal.

Falling back question: Can't find anywhere in the book regarding a unit staying broken if it's within 6" of another unit (hence the "Run away, Run Away rule would suck...break yourself then get chased off the board...better to tie the big nasty up for a turn or 2).
So it sounds like if a unit breaks they fall back 2d6. The next turn if they are over 25% or have an IC they restest on highest Ld. If below 25% they need snake-eyes.
If they fail they fall back 2d6 (rinse and repeat). If they pass they consolidate 3", but can perform no other actions that turn (moving, shooting or assaulting).

Is that how you guys read it?

pretre wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:There is no Wolf Priest model. Only Ulrik the Slayer.

You must be using the Rune Priest model as a Wolf Priest, which make that model illegal to use as a Wolf Priest. Unless you clarify with your opponent that its actually a Wolf Priest and he has a Power Maul not an Axe.

There's no rule that says you can't create your own Wolf Priest model from the Space Wolves box set. And there is, in fact, another Wolf Priest (although he has a Crozius). Check P67 of the SW Codex.

Thats what I did.

Grey Templar wrote:I don't see any Wolf Priests avaliable here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440279a&rootCatGameStyle=

You will need to model your Wolf Priest with a Maul/Stave of some kind for him to be legal.

No, according to C:SW, you need to model him with Crozius Arcanum (power weapon). If the C:SM ruling carries to the C:SW, that means he must have a maul/staff/crozius. If it doesn't he can have any of the three varieties of PW.

Grey Templar wrote:I don't see any Wolf Priests avaliable here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440279a&rootCatGameStyle=

You will need to model your Wolf Priest with a Maul/Stave of some kind for him to be legal.

So with logic, I would have to Modifiy my Old School 1st Edition Space Marine with Power Sword.

Yeah, the availability of an item does not determine the legality of it.

That being said, I actually am going to go with Crozius = Maul. Since a Wolf Priest has no ability to purchase another CCW, you would want a Crozius on him.

Only if you were using him as a model that explicitly came with a Power Axe or Maul.

But since the SW Wolf Priest entry says Power Weapon and didn't get FAQed you are fine having a power axe. For now.

Grey Templar wrote:Only if you were using him as a model that explicitly came with a Power Axe or Maul.

But since the SW Wolf Priest entry says Power Weapon and didn't get FAQed you are fine having a power axe. For now.

It Says
Crozius Arcanum [Power Weapon]

Grey Templar wrote:There is no Wolf Priest model. Only Ulrik the Slayer.

You must be using the Rune Priest model as a Wolf Priest, which make that model illegal to use as a Wolf Priest. Unless you clarify with your opponent that its actually a Wolf Priest and he has a Power Maul not an Axe.

I believe there is no rule that states you have to use the OFFICIAL GW MODEL! NO CONVERSIONS! NO KIT BASHES! IF WE DON'T HAVE IT SUCKS TO BE YOU! This game is also a hobby so if the person wants to make a Wolf Priest he can, and since there is no model to base it on, he can choose which Power weapon to use. Until they FAQ it at least.

Until they apply the C:SM Crozius ruling onto C:SW.