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Maybe its just because I am tired, but I dont fully get the new rules.

FAQ states that Typhus get two and Ahriman get 3 new powers.
Does that mean that Typhus removes Wind of chaos and Nurgles rot in order to get two random ones from 6th rule book?
Same for Ahriman that exchanges 5 powers (doombolt, warptime, wind of chaos, gift of chaos and bolt of change) for 3 random ones?

For Daemon princes it seems that I first have to buy a power (to be a psyker) and then exchange it for one random in the rule book? Doombolt is the cheapest one, chosing anything else would be a waste of points.

Is this correct?

I know its been FAQed to say that The daemon prince is mastery level 1

But if he has the mark of Tzeentch, that lets him cast 2 Psycic powers (i think... i may be wrong) does he become mastery level 2?

Spot on.
Typhus trades his two powers to roll for 2 others.
Ahriman trades his 5 to roll for 3 (just like Njal trades 7 to roll for 2)
DP have to buy a power and then roll for a new one (same as eldar)

Lightcavalier wrote:Spot on.
Typhus trades his two powers to roll for 2 others.
Ahriman trades his 5 to roll for 3 (just like Njal trades 7 to roll for 2)
DP have to buy a power and then roll for a new one (same as eldar)

You got me : ) I am a slow writer....

Bloodhorror wrote:I know its been FAQed to say that The daemon prince is mastery level 1

Ahh I see that now, does that mean that I dont have to buy one power first? And a Khorne DP can be a psyker? The codex prohibits at least Khorne DP to take codex powers.

Bloodhorror wrote: But if he has the mark of Tzeentch, that lets him cast 2 Psycic powers (i think... i may be wrong) does he become mastery level 2?

Yes tzeentch has 2 powers but nothing states that he gets lvl 2. maybe he can take one from the codex and one from the rule book.

I still dont know I a DP need to buy a codex power first in order to exchange it or if he gets one for free.....

Well it says he can exchange each power BOUGHT or powers he has as basic from the codex to swap from the Cards.

a94marbo wrote:
Yes tzeentch has 2 powers but nothing states that he gets lvl 2. maybe he can take one from the codex and one from the rule book.

He is Mastery 2. (BRB p66, 'Establishing Mastery Level')

I still dont know I a DP need to buy a codex power first in order to exchange it or if he gets one for free.....

He needs to purchase a codex power first, then replace it with a Discipline power.

Sounds like a buff for the CSM than... the new powers are much nastier than the old ones. Even on a 3vs 5 trade, it's still a good trade. Typhus benefits immensely.

This is still pretty confusing to me tbh..

1) Are we sure that Typhus and Ahriman don't just simply get 2 and 3 new disciplines alongside their stock psychic powers, considering none of them are "bought" and the FAQ states only that a Psyker may replace bought powers for disciplines? As well the FAQ says these two "may generate" new powers with no mention of needing to replace anything.

2) It states that Typhus is a mastery level 1, yet his Herald of Nurgle allows him to use both of his stock powers (or one and a force weapon, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore at all?). Does that mean this is no longer the case when using disciplines, and he can only use one per turn? Further, he cannot even take a power with a Warp charge of 2 or higher?

3) This one may be obvious, but I assume that since it says in the FAQ that CSM can only replace bought powers with telekinesis, telepathy, and pyromancy, this is also true for these two Psyker HQs too, who generate 2-3 without needing to buy, and thus they cannot take divination or biomancy powers?

Bare with me please, as I have not used Typhus for some time and have wanted to badly so I just want to get this straight ;P

Thanks in advance

please share the link to that thread.

mastery level is just the number of powers you can fire off i believe meaning you would trade 5 powers such as with ahrimanfor 5 new powers he just cant use them all at once.

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:mastery level is just the number of powers you can fire off i believe meaning you would trade 5 powers such as with ahrimanfor 5 new powers he just cant use them all at once.

That's where my confusion is, as posted above .. If you can trade 1 stock power for 1 new discipline, then why does it say he can generate 3 powers without mentioning that he needs to trade anything in?

In otherwords, can he have 8 powers in total, 5 stock powers + 3 disciplines OR 8 disciplines (that would be crazy..) ..

OR is it true that he trades in all 5 stock powers for just 3 or 5 (which is it?) disciplines, if the player is inclined to do so?

The rules regarding all of this are a bit vague =/ Or maybe I'm just being dense..

And my other questions still remain..

The issue is, that by FAQ, he has to use the disciplines INSTEAD of the Codex.

In which case, Typhus gets 2 new, but cant use the old

Ahriman gets 3 but cant use the old

This is because they use the new disciplines INSTEAD of the codex, and it is only after taking this option that they generate new powers.

The hardest part is:

Daemon princes 1 warp tokens
Typhus 1 warp tokens
ahriman 3 warp tokens

Psykers cant take powers they cant cast so the only psyker really worth it in the CSM dex is Ahriman.

Models with the Mark of Tzeentch are Mastery 2, so thats TzDP, TzSorcs and Aspy Sorcs. This is because they are allowed to use 2 powers a turn, and so become Mastery 2.

Basically, theyre just the same as they were, but with more options.

So in other words, Typhus can drop WoC and Nurgle's Rot to generate say 2 Pyromancy abilities with a Warp Charge of 1 such as Fiery Form and Sunburst. Being the Herald of Nurgle at this point doesn't mean jack anymore, right? Herald only worked with his original 2 powers and doesn't transfer over to FF and Sunburst, since they are now handled as disciplines using Warp Charges and Mastery Level?

Does this also mean that he can't also use his Force Weapon after using one of the disciplines, or at all anymore, even with his original 2 abilities (due to the removal of that line in the CSM FAQ) ?

In otherwords he would only be able to cast either WoC AND NR, OR only Fiery Burst (or only sunburst) assuming he took disciplines, OR use his Force Weapon?

yeah, still costs him a charge to use his Force Weapon.

He can use it in the opponents phase though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, in 5th ed, he could only cast one per turn, either Nurgles Rot OR Wind of Chaos, never both in one turn.

A. Both are shooting,

B. He never had the ability to use multiple powers.

Kiredor wrote:
Actually, in 5th ed, he could only cast one per turn, either Nurgles Rot OR Wind of Chaos, never both in one turn.

A. Both are shooting,

B. He never had the ability to use multiple powers.

Doh, that's right .. been so long since I used him, I misread his rule.

That really sucks about him not being able to use his Force Weapon alongside an ability/discipline anymore though..

EDIT: Reading it properly (lol) .. I assume that he doesn't automatically pass discipline tests, as he would WoC or NR, too?

yeah, if he changes.

Wind is still a good power though, with glances the way they are now

Kiredor wrote:yeah, if he changes.

Wind is still a good power though, with glances the way they are now

True, but at the same time I like a lot of the new powers he has access too

Especially Fiery Form .. 4+ Invuln would make him pretty outrageously tough, everything else given. Not to mention S7 and soul blaze. S7 alone with that many attacks seems like it could eat through a tank pretty easy, even just glancing the hell out of its hull points in one fell swoop.. And 3 to hit, 2 to wound with rerolls vs MEQs is nothing to laugh at.

Ofc, it's a 2/5 chance to get that discipline, but I think it's more than worth the chance .. and the other disciplines in Pyromancy are pretty decent too that it wouldn't be horrible to miss ;P


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kiredor wrote:yeah, still costs him a charge to use his Force Weapon.

He can use it in the opponents phase though.

I just found this in the FAQ actually .. I guess I overlooked it entirely.

"Q. Can Typhus use his force weapon ability on multiple models in the same Assault phase? (p55) A. No. As the weapon 'follows all of the rules for a normal force weapon', Typhus can only use it once per turn. The exception is that Typhus can use the force weapon and one of his psychic powers in the same turn."

Which brings me right back to my question of, does this rule still apply if he replaces his powers with disciplines? Allowing him to use a Pyromancy ability and his Force weapon each per turn?

This brings up another point which has been mentioned in another thread.. The way the BRB writes the "Force" rule, it no longer mentions only being able to be used on one model, in fact clearly states that if a Pysker inflicts one or more wounds and the psychic test is passed that ALL unsaved wounds inflicted by the Force weapon that turned have the Instant Death special rule. This is entirely contradictory to 5th edition, and the CSM FAQ which says to go by Force Weapons as written in the BRB..

As well, Typhus' ability to use his Force Weapon alongisde one of his powers is also seemingly contradictory to above lines in the FAQ, particularly the one about ignoring the line that states he can do this in his C:CSM entry..

SO many contradictions and supposed oversights in the CSM FAQs so far ..

Why do I get the feeling this is a left hand not communicating with the right hand thing =/

They removed his ability to use the force weapon without a charge in the same FAQ.

He used to be able to use it no matter what.

He can now only use one power, including Force Weapons.

All the issues and mistakes are probably because its the next codex coming out. So it wont matter soon... Or so I hope.

Kiredor wrote:They removed his ability to use the force weapon without a charge in the same FAQ.

He used to be able to use it no matter what.

He can now only use one power, including Force Weapons.

All the issues and mistakes are probably because its the next codex coming out. So it wont matter soon... Or so I hope.

That's exactly what I mean .. On one hand they, unclearly and indirectly, state that he can't use both a psychic power and force weapon in the same turn. And then in the exact same FAQ, clearly, state that he can on the next page..

So which is it? How can anyone say it's one way vs the other? lol =/

And on one hand, it could mean that they wanted it to be interpreted that he can use one of his own powers and his force weapon in one turn. But on the other hand, they don't even come close to mentioning this or making it seem that way with how it's written..

I hate to sound like a complainer, but you would think with how long we had to wait for this and especially any updates to CSM they wouldn't make so many obvious mistakes. Not to mention with new costs.. It almost feels like someone entirely separate from GW themselves FAQ'd CSM lol. And having the new Dex around the corner isn't really an excuse for this many mistakes and oversights to a single FAQ ;P

With regard to Asp Sorc:
We have est that it IS PML:2
And by p66 of BRB because there is no rule stating he knows only one power he would then know 2 powers. So...
Could he buy one power then just pick one from a disp without trading anything out.

psf3077 wrote:With regard to Asp Sorc:
We have est that it IS PML:2
And by p66 of BRB because there is no rule stating he knows only one power he would then know 2 powers.

The rule stating he has one power is in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

DarknessEternal wrote:

psf3077 wrote:With regard to Asp Sorc:
We have est that it IS PML:2
And by p66 of BRB because there is no rule stating he knows only one power he would then know 2 powers.

The rule stating he has one power is in Codex Chaos Space Marines.

The only rule to this i found stated he MUST but one, not that he may buy only one.

He is not given permission to buy powers other than the one he must take. Also, if he is given Two powers, he technically has not been given One. If they wanted him to have more, they would have said 'at least one'.

Under DPs and Sorcerers, there is an addition to the rules that say 'models with the mark of tzeentch may take two'. This is the ONLY reason that those models can by a second power if they don't take a familiar. The mark of Tzeentch does not by default allow them to have two powers, just use two.

You MUST buy ONE power

If you buy 2, have you bought 1? No.

Tomb King wrote:The hardest part is:

Daemon princes 1 warp tokens
Typhus 1 warp tokens
ahriman 3 warp tokens

Psykers cant take powers they cant cast so the only psyker really worth it in the CSM dex is Ahriman.

You generate warp charges every turn, it was my understanding that you store warp charges if you don't use them.

So even if you get a Warp Charge 2 ability, if you save a charge for a turn you can cast it next turn.

If that were the case, then no one would ever be allowed to re-roll on the psychic chart for not having enough warp charges for a psychic power, since every psyker could use any power, porivded he waited a set number of turns

psf3077 wrote:With regard to Asp Sorc:
We have est that it IS PML:2
And by p66 of BRB because there is no rule stating he knows only one power he would then know 2 powers. So...
Could he buy one power then just pick one from a disp without trading anything out.

Hey in regards to Asp Sorc I can't seem to find evidence that he is PML 2. he gets one power and has a force weapon. Does that mean I get to roll for 1 power (say) on the pyromancy chart while having a warp charge of 2?

Asp Sorc are Mastery level 1 (per the FAQ). Mark of Tzeentch allows them to cast an additional psychic power making them mastery 2.