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Hey guys, just wanted to start a thread where we can discuss some counter tactics against flyers. They seem to be quite potent with their new abilities.

I find that the doom/night scythes, especially with their new rules, are (if I dare say) overpowered. Especially if you're imperial guard and take a squadron of 3 vendettas...and on top of that, take up to a whooping 6 fast attack choices if the points of the game are over 2000.

So I've been thinking, how do you counter flyers without using flyers yourself? For necrons, and a few other races, I think I've come up with some solutions so far. Please comment and correct me if I'm wrong.

HQ
I feel necrons have 3 heroes that work well against flyers. Imotekh, with his nightfighting, Nemesor, with his tank hunters, and especially, anakyr.

Another HQ choice i think could be effective are 1, perhaps 2, suicidal royal courts with 4 harbringers of storm and 1 harbringer of despair with veil. hell, throw in a lord to make em durable, as they are ever living. Basically, the tactics with these guys are deepstrike if flyers are out of their 12" range, than unleash fury, then die. (and come back for some more action hahaha)

Troops
Immortals with tesla carbines. I think these will work especially well against flyers with AV 11. The tesla rule will greatly help the immortals fight, especially with the new hull points rules.

Elites
I don't think elites have any effective counters againsnt flyers.

Fast attack
I don't think this section has any potential against flyers either...

Heavy Support
The annihilation barge! Paired with nemesor's tank hunters, I think this will be a powerful tool to use. at str 7 and re rolling hits, and av - now no longer having any penalties, annihilation barges can burn through flyers. However, if flyers evade, this can reduce its effectiveness...although then, flyers can only make snapshots, which effecitvely stops their shooting. Which is a good thing.

Dedicated Transports
The catacomb command barge is now a chariot. I read through the sweeping advance moves, and it doesn't say anything about being an assault move. At least that is what I think. I don't know if GW will correct this, but if chariots can sweep advance flyers, this will be huge! Especially with anakyr with his warscythe, or a generic overlord with a warscythe.

Now, with anakyr's mind of the machine, he can control a vehicle's shooting. Therefore, i think that if anakyr targets a flyer, that flyer should target other flyers, since flyers have the skyfire rule! And against that 3 squadron vendetta combo...I don't know if anakyr is able to control a squadron, but the rules do state that a squadron must fire together...if that's true,that's 9 twinlinked 3 bs las cannons! Not only that, command barges can move flat out to gain a 4+ cover save, and if you give him stealth using the nemesor, that's 3+!

Now, the reason why I mentionned Imotekh is because night fighting forces the flyers to come forward, and not be able to hang back and fire any long range weaponry. This helps complement the tactics mentionned above.

Of course, you could just get more flyers to counter other flyers, but to be honest, I don't really like flyers. I feel that gw is just trying to make people buy flyers now, with their making vehicles totally useless in 6th now...

Sorry but the last line is our best counter, our own night/doomscythes. They are among the best flyers as is and in dogfights they are more than able to down any other flyer.

Of course, you could just get more flyers to counter other flyers, but to be honest, I don't really like flyers. I feel that gw is just trying to make people buy flyers now, with their making vehicles totally useless in 6th now...

Flyers are interesting because at this point, there are very few counters to them. As of now, the choices are:

1. Fortifications-the downside being that tourneys might not allow these and the fact that they are just one gun.
2. Anti-aircraft-which happens to be a missile that no one has and a Hydra, which got nerfed hard
3. Other flyers-the problem being that not everyone has these (or if they do, they aren't good).
4. Mass fire-self explanatory
5. Ignore them-which isn't really a great option.

The issue that exists currently is that Necrons have access to lots of really good flyers. Aside from the fragile Dakka Jet for Orks, the other flyers are pretty mediocre. The Dark Eldar flyers are too generalized in an army of specialists.Therefore, DE pay too many points for them. Space Marines get a glorified speeder for too many points. The Storm Raven is too many points for a gun boat, and now a terrible transport because of the risk.

The problem is that there isn't a great way to deal with flyers without other flyers However, adding too many "skyfire" or frakk missile units to the game would quickly invalidate flyers.

I imagine that in the short term, Necrons will be very dominant. I also imagine that a codex will come out with a very undercosted unit or weapon that will counter flyers and swing the pendulum too far in the other direction. A bit cynical, but it makes sense.

Annihilation Barges are brilliant against flyers. 3.66 hits per turn at S7. Personally I can't see why I would rather field Annihilation Barges instead of Doom Scythes in 6th, but if you're looking for an answer other than 'bring your own flyers' then anything that shoots a lot at S5 or higher and is twin-linked can be considered a perfectly good anti-aircraft weapon. The recipy against the Necron Air Force is quantity over quality, twin-link everything, bring a Quad Gun (might not always be allowed like JGrand said), and if your army has flyers then bring a couple. Finally don't forget the fact that vehicles don't even deny (contest) objectives in 6th so you can also try to focus on the mission while also taking advantage of the fact that flyers can't really turn that well.

As RAW currently stands, CCB Overlords can Sweep Attack flyers and -- given that -- they are probably Necrons' best anti-flyer HQ at the moment. People might balk at the limited range of the CCB, but with the flyers own movement restrictions (limited turning, minimum move distances, etc.), I think it would be pretty easy to "trap" an enemy flyer with a CCB. The CCB is such a good option IMO, that I wouldn't be surprised if it were FAQed to have no effect on Zooming flyers. That would be a bummer, but for now I believe we're in the clear.

Imotekh's an interesting option, but the Night Fighting cuts both ways. If you're up against flyers, they'll certainly appreciate the boost to their evading flyers' Jink saves. One Necron unit could get Night Vision from Zandrekh to counter that somewhat, but that's only one unit. And those enemy flyers are still getting the improved Jink saves against Lightning and...eh...I don't know, isn't Imotekh unreliable enough already?

I like Anrakyr as well, but I think his effectiveness hangs on whether MitM works out of a CCB. Otherwise it's too much of a hassle (and too much of a risk!) getting him out and using it. I don't believe MitM will work against a full squadron either (only one vehicle model is effected IIRC), but that would be nice...

All of our troops will do alright. Tesla Immortals are great for snap-firing, but Warriors and Gauss Immortals will be able to rack up Glances as well.

Scythes are a good option for obvious reasons. No need to go into them much further. The real question is how much better than Annihilation Barges they'll be for anti-flyer duties. My take is: not much. A 'Skyfire' Tesla Destructer will average approx. 5 hits against a flyer. A plain jane Tesla Destructor will average 3.66 hits (meaning it will usually get 3 hits, and often get 6 hits). Not a huge difference. Another neat thing, since they're snap-firing anyway, an Annihilation Barge can move its full 12" and fire at full effectiveness against a flyer. Those extra 6" should be very useful, either for moving away from threatening flyers while shooting or catching flyers trying to keep out of your threat range.

Now, of course, you can't take Annihilation Barges in the numbers that you can take Scythes, so I guess the $1,000,000 question is: will 3 Anni Barges be enough? If "flyerspam" becomes a truly viable build in 6th, it might not. But if you'll only have to typically deal with a maximum 5-6 flyers, I think 3 Annihilation Barges and 2 CCBs will be plenty of anti-flyer.

Hey guys there are some really good ideas here for the anti or counter flyer but maybe on of the best personally is a night scythe with a squad of immortals with gauss or a 15 man squad of warriors. I say this is probably the best besides using a fort. like A.D.L. with quadgun is because you can move the immortals in the night scythe 36in spit them out snap fire all that at the flyer and between all the gauss and if your in rapid fire range all those 6's are auto glance. with the new rules gauss is meaner than it ever has been since a squad of warriors can now destroy tanks/flyers/walkers with the auto glance on a 6. glancing now will remove a hull point so to me more gauss more vehicle destruction. just some food for thought and one thing that wasn't mentioned about necrons in 6th ed.

Sentry Pylons.
/thread

The Anni barge is the best best. I shot down two Stormravens in two turns with two barges.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.