Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well a lot of folks are posting that Logan got screwed by the new Power Axe rule. Having a Power Fist and another less powerful powerfist in the form of the Axe Morkai sucks. But is that really the case?

I argue not and here's why.

1) In Codex Space Wolves it states that the Axe Morkai may be used as a FROST BLADE or a Power Fist as he sees fit.
2) In the Space Wolf War Gear section there is a definite distinction between FROST BLADES and FROST AXES, though both are power weapons that grant a +1 Str.
3) In the current Space Wolf FAQ it states that FROST BLADES and FROST AXES are DIFFERENT PIECES OF WARGEAR. If they are not synonymous then a BLADE is not an AXE.
4) The 6th edition rule about whether it resembles an axe doesn't fit. It doesn't resemble a Power Fist, either.

There fore it may be used as a Frost Blade (+1 Str, AP3 at Initiative) and a Power Fist (x2 Str, AP2 at I1).

PrimarchX wrote:Well a lot of folks are posting that Logan got screwed by the new Power Axe rule. Having a Power Fist and another less powerful powerfist in the form of the Axe Morkai sucks. But is that really the case?

I argue not and here's why.

1) In Codex Space Wolves it states that the Axe Morkai may be used as a FROST BLADE or a Power Fist as he sees fit.
2) In the Space Wolf War Gear section there is a definite distinction between FROST BLADES and FROST AXES, though both are power weapons that grant a +1 Str.
3) In the current Space Wolf FAQ it states that FROST BLADES and FROST AXES are DIFFERENT PIECES OF WARGEAR. If they are not synonymous then a BLADE is not an AXE.
4) The 6th edition rule about whether it resembles an axe doesn't fit. It doesn't resemble a Power Fist, either.

There fore it may be used as a Frost Blade (+1 Str, AP3 at Initiative) and a Power Fist (x2 Str, AP2 at I1).

correct, it is not an axe, or well not an normal axe.

I disagree. If you look at the entry for "Frost Blade" in Codex Space Wolves, it say's "power weapon" with +1 strength.

The BRB has clarified the ambiguous term "power weapon" to mean power axe, power sword, power maul etc. All of which are different. IIRC the BRB says something like, "To see what kid of weapon your power weapon is, look and see what the miniature is modeled with."

The Axe Morkai is an axe. So Logan can choose to wield it as either a Frost Axe (+2 Str, @ Init 1) or a Power Fist (x2 Str, @ Init 1).

I know this sucks but there it is. Maybe it will get FAQ'd, but until then Logan got nerfed.

Grugknuckle wrote:I disagree. If you look at the entry for "Frost Blade" in Codex Space Wolves, it say's "power weapon" with +1 strength.

The BRB has clarified the ambiguous term "power weapon" to mean power axe, power sword, power maul etc. All of which are different. IIRC the BRB says something like, "To see what kid of weapon your power weapon is, look and see what the miniature is modeled with."

The Axe Morkai is an axe. So Logan can choose to wield it as either a Frost Axe (+2 Str, @ Init 1) or a Power Fist (x2 Str, @ Init 1).

I know this sucks but there it is. Maybe it will get FAQ'd, but until then Logan got nerfed.

Frost Blades and Frost Axes are now their own Specific weapon types(not falling under power weapons at all)
because of the FAQ replacing the reference to them as power weapons at all with their individual profiles.

This Makes the Axe Morkai not a Power weapon, but an Axe Morkai; a Special weapon with it's specific rules; One of those rules allow it to strike as a Frost Blade(not Axe, Blade).

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Frost Blades and Frost Axes are now their own Specific weapon types(not falling under power weapons at all)
because of the FAQ replacing the reference to them as power weapons at all with their individual profiles.

This Makes the Axe Morkai not a Power weapon, but an Axe Morkai; a Special weapon with it's specific rules; One of those rules allow it to strike as a Frost Blade(not Axe, Blade).

Just looked at it again and I think you're right. On page three of the FAQ it distinguishes "frost blade" from "frost axe". I don't have my space wolves codex in front of me, but as long as the Axe Morkai says "Frost Blade" and not "Frost Axe" then you're right.

This is as it should be anyway.

Grugknuckle wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Frost Blades and Frost Axes are now their own Specific weapon types(not falling under power weapons at all)
because of the FAQ replacing the reference to them as power weapons at all with their individual profiles.

This Makes the Axe Morkai not a Power weapon, but an Axe Morkai; a Special weapon with it's specific rules; One of those rules allow it to strike as a Frost Blade(not Axe, Blade).

Just looked at it again and I think you're right. On page three of the FAQ it distinguishes "frost blade" from "frost axe". I don't have my space wolves codex in front of me, but as long as the Axe Morkai says "Frost Blade" and not "Frost Axe" then you're right.

This is as it should be anyway.

The FAQ does more than that.

It replaces the last sentence of "Frost Blade or Axe" with the 2 separate Profiles. It is the Last Sentence of the entry in the Codex that explains they are Power weapons, and what they do.

Since the rules that tell you they are power weapons are replaced; they are not power weapons.

And yes, The Axe Morkai is very Clearly defined as strikes as a Frost Blade; it repeats Frost Blade in the example about splitting his attacks between the 2 modes.

none of this matters at all.

People so far seem to be completely blind to the part of the rule for power weapons that says "with no further special rules"

you only choose your power weapon based on appearance if the model has a power weapon with no further special rules. A frost weapon was a power weapon with +1 strength, see that +1 strength thing there, thats a further special rule. So morkai even without the FAQ for space wolves, was never counted as a new style power axe.

+1 on Logans "Frost Blade" not being an axe, but rather an exception due to the Codex and FAQ rulings. Kommissar Kel hit the nail on the head, where he stated that it "srikes as" a "frost blade", not a "frost axe".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

08ak1 wrote:none of this matters at all.

People so far seem to be completely blind to the part of the rule for power weapons that says "with no further special rules"

you only choose your power weapon based on appearance if the model has a power weapon with no further special rules. A frost weapon was a power weapon with +1 strength, see that +1 strength thing there, thats a further special rule. So morkai even without the FAQ for space wolves, was never counted as a new style power axe.

Except that the Space Wolf FAQ makes a distinction between "Frost Blades" and "Frost Axes".

08ak1 wrote:none of this matters at all.

People so far seem to be completely blind to the part of the rule for power weapons that says "with no further special rules"

you only choose your power weapon based on appearance if the model has a power weapon with no further special rules. A frost weapon was a power weapon with +1 strength, see that +1 strength thing there, thats a further special rule. So morkai even without the FAQ for space wolves, was never counted as a new style power axe.

As I just said twice, I will say a third time: Frost Blades and Frost axes are not Power weapons.

The rules for power weapons do not apply to Frost Blades or Frost axes any more than the rules for a Battle cannon, or Assault Vehicle would apply to Frost blades/axes.

bigbaboonass wrote:+1 on Logans "Frost Blade" not being an axe, but rather an exception due to the Codex and FAQ rulings. Kommissar Kel hit the nail on the head, where he stated that it "srikes as" a "frost blade", not a "frost axe".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

08ak1 wrote:none of this matters at all.

People so far seem to be completely blind to the part of the rule for power weapons that says "with no further special rules"

you only choose your power weapon based on appearance if the model has a power weapon with no further special rules. A frost weapon was a power weapon with +1 strength, see that +1 strength thing there, thats a further special rule. So morkai even without the FAQ for space wolves, was never counted as a new style power axe.

Except that the Space Wolf FAQ makes a distinction between "Frost Blades" and "Frost Axes".

The point i made, is people seem to think every power weapon is replaced by the new types. Without the FAQ a Frost blade is an unusual power weapon, with the FAQ it's a Frost blade which is no different. At no point was he ever able to or forced to strike using the new power axe profile.

The FAQ makes a Frost Axe available to the wolves as a new option to anyone who could take frost weapons before, nothing more.

edit: Kommissar, did you read what i wrote? none of it's disputing you.....

08ak1 wrote:

bigbaboonass wrote:+1 on Logans "Frost Blade" not being an axe, but rather an exception due to the Codex and FAQ rulings. Kommissar Kel hit the nail on the head, where he stated that it "srikes as" a "frost blade", not a "frost axe".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

08ak1 wrote:none of this matters at all.

People so far seem to be completely blind to the part of the rule for power weapons that says "with no further special rules"

you only choose your power weapon based on appearance if the model has a power weapon with no further special rules. A frost weapon was a power weapon with +1 strength, see that +1 strength thing there, thats a further special rule. So morkai even without the FAQ for space wolves, was never counted as a new style power axe.

Except that the Space Wolf FAQ makes a distinction between "Frost Blades" and "Frost Axes".

The point i made, is people seem to think every power weapon is replaced by the new types. Without the FAQ a Frost blade is an unusual power weapon, with the FAQ it's a Frost blade which is no different. At no point was he ever able to or forced to strike using the new power axe profile.

The FAQ makes a Frost Axe available to the wolves as a new option to anyone who could take frost weapons before, nothing more.

I agree with you 100%. I believe I may not have communicated as well, or as clearly, as I should have and was in know way implying that you were wrong. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I believe everyone is on the same page and in agreement. The "Axe of Morkai" is a unique weapon with it's own set of special rules, that it follows.

How does this line of reasoning affect Relic Blades.

It is my understanding that they are still Str +2, AP3, Init as model, regardless of appearances... is this how you guys see it?

...Kel?, looking at you

Lobukia wrote:How does this line of reasoning affect Relic Blades.

It is my understanding that they are still Str +2, AP3, Init as model, regardless of appearances... is this how you guys see it?

...Kel?, looking at you

Le, sigh.

Let Me Check.


Relic Blades are not in the FAQ; and they have Unique Special rules(Set Strength value, no 2-weapon bonus). They are Unusual Power weapons With A str 6, AP 3 Strike at Initiative, and cannot gain a 2-weapon bonus when they are used(but another weapon used will count them for a 2-weapons Bonus attack); and Finally their form Does not matter(Axe, Sword, Spear, Club, Battle Cannon, Old style Dark Eldar Warrior, these are all Relic blades with the above profile should the model wielding them have a relic blade).

Relic Blades always hit at S6, not +2, but S6

A Wraithlord with a Relic Blade is S6

A Grot with a Relic Blade is S6

(sorry if i sound angry, but this is the second thread in a row ive read with people having the wrong rules for a relic blade)

Kiredor wrote:Relic Blades always hit at S6, not +2, but S6

A Wraithlord with a Relic Blade is S6

A Grot with a Relic Blade is S6

(sorry if i sound angry, but this is the second thread in a row ive read with people having the wrong rules for a relic blade)

hey, I just want to know the rules. Asked the question from a friend's on the phone (no codex). You gave me a rule that I wasn't using correctly, and I thank you