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I am wondering how people are going to go about these duels. From the sound of it people will issue duels to keep their IC from getting punched out from an entire squad. Anyone agree with this? Also feel free to post stories about challenges that you have fought so far.

Some IG players have mentioned taking sergeants with no equipment in their powerblob squads just to challenge enemy ICs and reduce the number of casualties taken. It seems a little gamey in that regard, but I'd love to see some real heroes throw down! I had a duel in 5th ed where my opponent and I agreed to put Pedro Kantor and his Warboss in base to base and have them duke it out in the midst of an assault and it was one of my favorite moments of the game!

Brother SRM wrote:Some IG players have mentioned taking sergeants with no equipment in their powerblob squads just to challenge enemy ICs and reduce the number of casualties taken. It seems a little gamey in that regard, but I'd love to see some real heroes throw down! I had a duel in 5th ed where my opponent and I agreed to put Pedro Kantor and his Warboss in base to base and have them duke it out in the midst of an assault and it was one of my favorite moments of the game!

Sort of epic fight that as to do with the thread title: I want Ghazzy duel mephiston while Ghazzez WAAAGH is in effect. THAT would be an epic fight.

Though, if those sergeants win those challenges the army quickly builds up heroes.

I've had challenges like that with Yriel charging the Emperor's Champion as the battle waged on around it. Not something you'd want to see every game as it starts to cheapen it, but still something that quickly becomes a highlight of a game.

I think my problem with the challenge is that it allows characters to become in game bullies. Super powerful characters can isolate and destroy the one model with retaliatory capability, and throwaway characters can issue challenges to blunt the effectiveness of expensive, more powerful characters. I imagine we'll start seeing Turtle Sergeants with Storm Shields whose sole purpose is to engage powerful characters and hopefully just weather the storm while the other Marines attempt to defeat the rest of the enemy squad.

That, and it just isn't very fluffy. Why is an Avatar going to bother dueling every scrub who waves a fist at it? It's not. The average character is insignificant to the embodied avatar of a war god. It's not even going to waste its time. It will just bowl him over as it goes about its business because dueling is a waste of its time and contrary to its objectives.

I mean, the "challenge" mechanic is a cool idea, but it doesn't take into account the gamey nature of it, nor the fact that some factions just have characters that won't care about challenges, or glory, or such and shouldn't be penalized for ignoring a challenge. The rule should have had no penalty for refusal. Then it becomes a fun mechanic for people like SRM to use for cinematic effect, and isn't some kind of exploitable stupidity for the WAACers.

stompygitz wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Some IG players have mentioned taking sergeants with no equipment in their powerblob squads just to challenge enemy ICs and reduce the number of casualties taken. It seems a little gamey in that regard, but I'd love to see some real heroes throw down! I had a duel in 5th ed where my opponent and I agreed to put Pedro Kantor and his Warboss in base to base and have them duke it out in the midst of an assault and it was one of my favorite moments of the game!

Sort of epic fight that as to do with the thread title: I want Ghazzy duel mephiston while Ghazzez WAAAGH is in effect. THAT would be an epic fight.

Brief, but Epic

Even more fun if he was in a 30 boy squad at the time of the challenge.. Rerolls ftw...

It is certainly true that people will try to control challenges to best influence the battle be it singling out the only threat to having a cheap sergeant weather the storm of blows hoping that his fellows will be able to finish the fight. It is the cunning use of tactics to insure that you don't fall into such a trap or to try to try to keep your opponent at such a disadvantage.

Though I am sure we will start to see characters that will have more interaction with the rule. Such as characters that can ignore it or insure that a certain character must answer the challenge if it is accepted. I can think of of the Necron HQ duo as being the one that comes to the forefront of my mind. The Vanguard (forget his name) can teleport to the side of the other which instantly enables him to take the challenge in his stead. His warscythe beside his 2+ save makes his able to ignore power swords and mauls and strike back ahead of fists and axes. I think we will start to see at least one HQ or upgrade character will probably have some interaction with challenge ruleset in some way for the next codex or two.

Saevius wrote:It is certainly true that people will try to control challenges to best influence the battle be it singling out the only threat to having a cheap sergeant weather the storm of blows hoping that his fellows will be able to finish the fight. It is the cunning use of tactics to insure that you don't fall into such a trap or to try to try to keep your opponent at such a disadvantage.

Though I am sure we will start to see characters that will have more interaction with the rule. Such as characters that can ignore it or insure that a certain character must answer the challenge if it is accepted. I can think of of the Necron HQ duo as being the one that comes to the forefront of my mind. The Vanguard (forget his name) can teleport to the side of the other which instantly enables him to take the challenge in his stead. His warscythe beside his 2+ save makes his able to ignore power swords and mauls and strike back ahead of fists and axes. I think we will start to see at least one HQ or upgrade character will probably have some interaction with challenge ruleset in some way for the next codex or two.

Heroic Intervention is just for that purpose is it not?

That, and it just isn't very fluffy. Why is an Avatar going to bother dueling every scrub who waves a fist at it? It's not. The average character is insignificant to the embodied avatar of a war god. It's not even going to waste its time. It will just bowl him over as it goes about its business because dueling is a waste of its time and contrary to its objectives.

It has done this, several times infact, the most famous being when it tried to call out a Hive Tyrant in order to duel.

I imagine we'll start seeing Turtle Sergeants with Storm Shields whose sole purpose is to engage powerful characters and hopefully just weather the storm while the other Marines attempt to defeat the rest of the enemy squad.

A use for Combat Shield at last? Hmm, might be useful.

Yes as a tray to serve the sergeant on as offering to the enemy. If pleased he may leave the rest alone for a while.

I was just reading the rules earlier and thinking out loud how cool they sounded. In other words:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I mean, the "challenge" mechanic is a cool idea, but it doesn't take into account the gamey nature of it, nor the fact that some factions just have characters that won't care about challenges, or glory, or such and shouldn't be penalized for ignoring a challenge. The rule should have had no penalty for refusal. Then it becomes a fun mechanic for people like SRM to use for cinematic effect, and isn't some kind of exploitable stupidity for the WAACers.

I really hope I don't run into folks who ruin it for the more narrative-happy gamers out there like myself. The rules sound fun to me, barring the WAAC type who will ruin anything.

I like this rule. I like a lot of the new fun things. I also think this is GW's way to further their obvious goal of making a game for fun and not for tournaments. I really don't see how this can be a serious tournament game, but it will be a ton of fun to play with friends on a Saturday while drinking a beer or two.

I just imagine nervous marines after a battle, all hoping that they will not be promoted, as the only people who were lost in the last fight were all the sergeants.

Could be an explanation for why they never wear helmets. Screwed over anyway so why not go out as a bad ass.

I think dueling could be a cool mechanism if done right, which it isn't at the moment.
It doesn't matter whether or not you accept your decline the challenge because you lose the use of that character for an entire turn. There shouldn't be repercussions for declining a dual.
I would rather answer all the challenges the way I do it in other games, ignore them or simply with a hail of bullets.

Brother SRM wrote:Some IG players have mentioned taking sergeants with no equipment in their powerblob squads just to challenge enemy ICs and reduce the number of casualties taken. It seems a little gamey in that regard, but I'd love to see some real heroes throw down! I had a duel in 5th ed where my opponent and I agreed to put Pedro Kantor and his Warboss in base to base and have them duke it out in the midst of an assault and it was one of my favorite moments of the game!

Psshh, sounds exactly like something the Guard would do! I can even imagine it now, a Commissar ordering a Sergeant right in front of a Daemon prince or a Catachan regiment pushing the Sergeant that they hate right into a Terminator Captain.

i had a termy sarge vs draigo.... took him 4 rounds of combat to kill me lol, was epic

My TH/SS deathwing sergeant smashed an archon in a duel. he also dealt two wounds to drazhar.

this was as the rest of my squad mowed down the incubi supporting them.

I had a quick game with my GK vs C: SM, had a duel between my Grand Master and his Shrike, lasted 3 turns, it was epic.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That, and it just isn't very fluffy. Why is an Avatar going to bother dueling every scrub who waves a fist at it? It's not. The average character is insignificant to the embodied avatar of a war god. It's not even going to waste its time. It will just bowl him over as it goes about its business because dueling is a waste of its time and contrary to its objectives.

It has done this, several times infact, the most famous being when it tried to call out a Hive Tyrant in order to duel.

That's a Hive Tyrant, lol. Killing it disrupts the coordination of the Hive Mind.

He wasn't out there responding to challenges from the biggest Hormagaunt in every brood, lol.

Another problem my orks will now have to deal with is a PK nob. 29 orkz running up to protect the only Power weapon. Now he can be easily rooted out........this is not good!

People always refuse my challenges, Because well, no one wants a multi wound model to fight a librarian with a force weapon and a bike or khan.

Brother SRM wrote:Some IG players have mentioned taking sergeants with no equipment in their powerblob squads just to challenge enemy ICs and reduce the number of casualties taken.

This, of course, is what is going to happen far more often than the "epic duelling" we were promised. Were I an Imperial Guard players I'd be wondering right now whether the chance of a lucky kill against a low-initiative IC might make it worth upgrading those sacrificial sergeants to carry power swords. Wolf Guard "sergeants" with storm shields will also become extra-useful. Actually, though at 43 points one wouldn't be cheap, a Wolf Guard in terminator armour with a frost blade and storm shield seems, on the face of it, a rather tempting upgrade as a points-economical IC-tarpit/assassin.

Edit: I haven't had the chance to think about this properly yet, but it seems to me that the optimal Marine tactical sergeant's loadout has just migrated to a power sword and melta bombs, for the same reason.

stompygitz wrote:Another problem my orks will now have to deal with is a PK nob. 29 orkz running up to protect the only Power weapon. Now he can be easily rooted out........this is not good!

You can still get the nob to grab other orks on a 4+, also might be a good idea to equip him with 'Eavy armor.

stompygitz wrote:Another problem my orks will now have to deal with is a PK nob. 29 orkz running up to protect the only Power weapon. Now he can be easily rooted out........this is not good!

Yeah, facing MEQ your Nob and the PF Sgt will likely kill each other...leaving the 29 Boys (who are still Fearless) to smash the rest of the Marines. You may have lost your Nob, but the other guy lost his entire unit.
Also now that snipers can do the Telion thing (select their targets) on a 6, you will see a lot of sniping out Nobs anyways.