Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So as you know with the 6th edition some new rules have come out for tanks, they have been given hull points and can now to other interesting moves like tank shocks and ramming.

Do you all thing this is a good thing to have or does it hurt vehicles to much?

Well, vehicles will be easier to take down in cc. This also holds for fast skimmers which will be hit on 3+ if moved.
However, transports are faster than they were before and are still useful to bring units from A to B.
A wall of tanks with AV 13 is still scary, hard to eliminate via shooting.

IM still kinda on the fence about this. my army is a heavy shooter based SM army. I mean im rolling in with 3 vindicators and a LR so people still crap their pants, but my LR wont be able to get to far in to drop my assault terms from what im hearing about how fast tanks get taken down.


on a side note i think tanks with dozer blades should get a bonus to tank shock and ramming, i mean they do have a dozer blade, just sayen

Tank Shock and ram were in 5th too.
People who say vehicles are now worthless probably haven't actually played any games. They're SLIGHTLY less destructable than 5th. That's pretty much it.
What's really changed the meta is the LOLWTF of flyers, or at least flyers as they are until codexes come along that give armies ways of dealing with them.
For example, I'm a deamon player and I assume in our next codex (whenever the hell *that* will be) will let screamers attack flyers. But for the moment, allies, Aegis or boned.

Dont get me wrong I know how hard it was to kill a tank in 5th, that's why I ran all mech haha 3 vinds a LR and 2 Rhinos, oh and a dread. im just thinking now ill need to use my infantry more as meat shields to keep them from my heavy support. As for what im hearing about flyers yeah...go go flakk ML

Backspacehacker wrote:Dont get me wrong I know how hard it was to kill a tank in 5th, that's why I ran all mech haha 3 vinds a LR and 2 Rhinos, oh and a dread. im just thinking now ill need to use my infantry more as meat shields to keep them from my heavy support. As for what im hearing about flyers yeah...go go flakk ML

With your army you are already on the right track. Vindicators are great and an LR is a must-have if you field Assault Termies. However, now I'd take Rifleman Dreads and Stormtalon for anti-air and anti-whatnot.

I play guard, which mainly uses tanks to deliver any sort of punch. After a half dozen games, the only thing i noticed was that it was harder to stop my tanks from performing (glances don't cause any damage = no shaken/stunned), and they crumbled under CC nearly every time (usually glanced to death).

IMO, this is a good thing for the game, and makes it more enjoyable for both me and my opponent. I like this.

Shadelkan wrote:I play guard, which mainly uses tanks to deliver any sort of punch. After a half dozen games, the only thing i noticed was that it was harder to stop my tanks from performing (glances don't cause any damage = no shaken/stunned), and they crumbled under CC nearly every time (usually glanced to death).

IMO, this is a good thing for the game, and makes it more enjoyable for both me and my opponent. I like this.

Well, I'd consider allies that provide some punch in cc giving you a strong counter-strike unit. This is what IG was lacking in the 5th, but now not anymore.

well If thats the case im running with 2 tac squads each has a ML and a scout squad with telion so right there i have a BS 5 ML with a flakk round, and the 2 tac squads have rhinos, I might be able to drop a Term squad, at that point my captain as well since his squad is gone now(My other HQ is a chaplain and he is with the assault terms) then add maybe 2 fliers

Backspacehacker wrote:well If thats the case im running with 2 tac squads each has a ML and a scout squad with telion so right there i have a BS 5 ML with a flakk round, and the 2 tac squads have rhinos, I might be able to drop a Term squad, at that point my captain as well since his squad is gone now(My other HQ is a chaplain and he is with the assault terms) then add maybe 2 fliers

Space marine missile launchers don't have flakk, in fact no one gets flakk missiles yet.

crap i must have miss understood that part of the rules, well guess im dropping my captain and his term squad for 2 stormtalons to harass the gak outta their units

I think the new tank rules matter depending on what exactly you are using the tank for.

The increase in speed, glances being unable to immobilize or stun a tank means that transports will definitely be able to get where they are trying to go more consistently. Since they've gotten more fragile, they are definitely less useful as the impenetrable metal boxes they were in 5th.

Close combat is more deadly to tanks, but close combat ruined tanks in 5th as well.

I like the change over because it means that while most of my tanks will be dead by turn 5, in the preceding turns they were much more likely to be doing what I was trying to get them to do.

I think you hit it spot on thatguyoverthere. the general strategy im going to implement is this. My vinds are going to hang back at max range and shell the crap outta the enemy so they should never be in CC, use my land raider To push deep to unload my assault terms to do what they do best, and with a chaplain with them, they do that job really good. Then you my two tac squads to keep the enemy off the tanks and cap objectives.

I guess if you use each tank for what its meant to be used for, it ends up working pretty well. the only concern i have now is taking care of fliers

I play heavy mech'd up IG and 6th has taken a great toll on my lists. Time to go back the drawing board.

Big ones, no blasts at Fliers. Hull points. All the night fighting.

I find that the hull point problem is more than countered by how much better blasts are. My tanks shoot every turn they are on the table, and nearly always hit something at full strength now. I have played a couple of games with my Guard, and am now moving toward what someone mentioned above, having a good infantry unit or two to protect my tanks. I will be trying out two units of Grey Hunters hanging back with the Russ' and Manticores, behind a defense line. I'll let you know if it works.

bb

My (evil) Guard are a lot of foot sloggers backed up by LRBTs. The part of the new vehicle rule sets I like the most is that immobilizing a vehicle in a squadron doesn't kill it any more. Oh, one of my LRBT threw a tread? Well, his buddies can keep moving, and he'll just have to sit there with his BATTLE CANNON!

Plus, now he can shoot at something other than the rest of his unit.

It might now be worth taking multiple Hellhound varients. The Chimera chassis got immobilized (killed in 5th) too easy.

I think tanks got better at taking ranged damage. Maybe a bit more squishy in cc. Honestly unless I am playing necrons and maybe eldar I will always take tanks and walkers.

Agree and lets be honest the tanks and dreads kinda kick ass hah

Testify wrote:Tank Shock and ram were in 5th too.
People who say vehicles are now worthless probably haven't actually played any games. They're SLIGHTLY less destructable than 5th. That's pretty much it.
What's really changed the meta is the LOLWTF of flyers, or at least flyers as they are until codexes come along that give armies ways of dealing with them.
For example, I'm a deamon player and I assume in our next codex (whenever the hell *that* will be) will let screamers attack flyers. But for the moment, allies, Aegis or boned.

Honestly I have had people saying transports are dead, which always makes me chuckle. Yes, transports are dead, because in order to stop my transport you need to score 3 glancing/penetrating hits or penetrate my armour to stop them. With glancing no longer rolling on the damage chart transports got an even bigger boost.

So far, the only things that I've found that threatened my armor have been the same things that did so in 5th. Admittedly, vehicles are more vulnerable to assault, but at the same time, monstrous creatures are now terrified of Demolitions veterans, so I'm calling that one a draw.

For same armies, who relied on a mix of decent armor and ignoring part of the damage table, survivability is way down, but Chimeras, Medusas, and Russes are just as durable, and just as damaging as before.

Edit - autocorrect fixes.

One thing i did not see in the 6th ed, I might have just missed it, do vindicators still have ordinance attacks? im really hoping they do.

it depends on how the meta responds. Tanks werent nerfed THAT bad, but were nerfed, mainly with the 3+ to hit in close combat, hull points wasnt that bad of a nerf.

Even if tanks could be brought down by grot blasters, I'd still take them.

40K without tanks is just not any fun for me. So I say keep those engines running.