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I am reworking my 5th edition army into sixth... My goal is to make great all-comers list and to make use of some new rules and buffs marines got....

HQ: 140
Terminator librarian w ss: 140

ELITE: 465
5x th/ss terminators: 200
+ dedicated land rider reedemer ( extra armor, MM): 265

TROOPS: 620
10x tactical marine (pf, flamer, ml): 195
+ dedicated rhino:35
10x tactical marine (pf, flamer, ml): 195
10x tactical marine (pf, flamer, ml): 195

FAST ATTACK: 295
Storm Talon (typhoon ml): 155
Land speeder (hf, mm): 70
Land speeder (hf, mm): 70

HEAVY SUPPORT: 230
Vindicator: 115
Vindicator: 115

TOTAL: 1750

I do not have storm talon yet, but i find it as nice filler in this list... With 2 s8 and 4 tl s6 rending, it can make short work of low AV and poses great danger to AV 12 (just what I miss) yet can still damage infantry quite nicely...
Reason for not packing 3 rhinos is new rules about scoring units and fact that marines got boost in survivability on foot plus new rapid fire rules allow them to davance on foot...
So tell me what you think... Is it nice all-commers list? Or shuld I start from scratch:p

Looks pretty solid to me are you combat squading the tac squads? (remember in the FAQ both combat squads can go in the same transport) as the flamer/missile may be a bit redundant as if you move the missile it can only snap fire amd if you don't move then the flamer is useless apart from overwatch I guess and it is free at least, is it realy worth extra armour any more as it seems alot less usefull perhaps drop this and take 2 plasma guns in your non mech tac squads (have not got book with me so may be a few points off) as an all-comers list it is ok seems pretty nice overall and it is nice to see somone playing normal marines not blood angels space wolves ect, what chapter do you do?

I second dropping extra armor. The benefits of extra armor or its equivalent were largely due to rolls on the glancing table.
Give the termi libby a plasma pistol or something with the points.

IMO, now this is just what i think, but instead of a librarian take a chaplain with Term armor, put him with the assault terms, that way you get re-roll to hit with thunder hammers, which with the TH rules you get a x2 str multiplier so being able to get another chance to hit with one of those bad boys if you miss is pretty sweet imo.

@ Salamander marine:
About combat squading, it will really depend on my opponent and mission ( to be more exact, # of objectives)... I need 10 man squad against orks ( with new and improved atsknf and combat tactics combo, granades and challenges, 10 man squAd can tackle with Battlewagon full of boyz or so) and similar opponents, while ML combatsquad shall do nicely to sit on objetive (as it always had) and shoot at mech... Flamer is great now in overwatch and next turn i I'm losing assault in counter-charge after combat tactics.... As for useless ml, it would not be different for any other heavy weapon tac squad can take, and this one is free...
I will drop extra armour, was thinking of it myself, for trully it is not worth 15 pts... I will have to find some way to use those pts, though:p
I love plain old space marines, yet I do not have specific chapter... My models are painted similar to black templars
@ backspacehacker:
Termi libby is better than ever, imho... With now s6 and ap 4 in cc, brutal new psychic powers, he can be a beast inside and outside of cc... I love librarian, and I have been playing one as my HQ since day 1 ( plus he is my most beautifully painted model, which I'm proud of)....

Put HKs or SBs on your vindicators. Weapon destroyed results are now random, rather then opponent picks, so they will help protect the big gun.

That is a good call... Could exchange extra armour for it...
What about firepower? Do you guys think it is enough to counter mech-heavy army?

Those vindicators will rip apart a mech heavy list.

I was thinking of dropping land raider... What do you guys think of that? Would it be worth changing for more dakka?

I have an impression that every list will have that one unit that will rip my land rider open... Fire dragons, scarabs and so on... Would it be better to take, for example two double-autocannon dreadnought? for 8 s7 shots? and walk termies (perhaps even shooty ones??) by foot....

would allways just take a crusader instead as well the termies need a transport realy and the crusader is awesome can get 12 bolter shots in rapid fire range plus assault cannon plus multi melta, lots of dakka

Hehe, every time someone posts one kind of LR in a list, there's a few comments about how the other kinds are better I think it's a matter of taste, cos all three variants are pretty cool.

Regarding that comment about mech heavy lists getting ripped apart by Vindicators...while true that once Vindis get in range, they can really do a number on any kind of vehicle, but...they still need to get in range. I wouldn't rely just on Vindicators, I think.

If you really want more dakka could drop assault termies for shooting ones with cyclone missile launcher and then take devastators with missiles/lascannons

So after some thinking, here is my reworked list without land raider:

HQ: 140
Librarian ( termi armor, ss): 140

ELITES: 425
6x tac termies ( cml, 1xcf): 275
Dreadnought (MM, HF): 115
+ dedicated drop pod: 35

TROOPS: 620
Tactical squad (pf, ml, flamer) :195
Tactical squad (pf, ml, flamer) :195
Tactical squad (pf, ml, flamer) :195
+ dedicated drop pod: 35

FAST ATTACK: 335
Typhoon landspeeder:90
Typhoon landspeeder:90
Stormtalon gunship w typhoon: 155

HEAVY SUPPORT: 230
Vindicator: 115
Vindicator: 115

TOTAL: 1750

I'd drop the Speeders and a Tac Squad to get two more Stormtalons, and then maybe 5 naked Sniper Scouts with the last 75pts.

Other than that, looks great, and the one of the few truly adapted lists I've seen so far.

So, do you think snipers + two tactical squads can b enough troops? If so, there is other modification I would prefer:
- Drop both drop pods (70pts)
- drop dread (115pts)
- drop one tac squad (195pts)
- one terminator (40)
Total: 420

For those pts I would add:
- snipers (75pts)
- 2x dread w 2xtl autocannon: 250
- 2x rhino (70)

This leaves me with 25 more pts (maybe camo cloaks and ml on scouts?)

There is a reason why I don't want to play 3 fliers... Soon, every lost will have counter-fliers, new codexes and erratas will come out, and fliers will not be as efficient as they are... Or rather, so OP that every army fields as much as it can... I have not a single flier, and buying 3 is not an option, not since I know they won't last too long in metagame ( fliers will, but spams will not)...
Other reason is that with 3 fliers and termies ( and one pod in case of current list) I will have around 1k in my reserves, which will leave me with 750pts against 1750pts first few rounds... I tried it, and it just doesn't work...
So one storm talon will find itself in my army, but 3 no way...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Almost forgot;
I dont know if I would take those rhinos (or rather 2 of them)...
I am considering giving libby psyker mastery lvl 2... Is it worth it?
And one quick OT question... Do you choose either to take new psychic powers or old one durin army creation or during start of the game? Can I take old powers when I see what I'm up against, or do I have to choose 2 now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Almost forgot;
I dont know if I would take those rhinos (or rather 2 of them)...
I am considering giving libby psyker mastery lvl 2... Is it worth it?
And one quick OT question... Do you choose either to take new psychic powers or old one durin army creation or during start of the game? Can I take old powers when I see what I'm up against, or do I have to choose 2 now?

Chinchilla wrote:There is a reason why I don't want to play 3 fliers... Soon, every lost will have counter-fliers, new codexes and erratas will come out, and fliers will not be as efficient as they are... Or rather, so OP that every army fields as much as it can...

Erratas aren't going to change flyers based on how powerful they are that's not what they are for. And if 4yrs is your idea of soon, fair enough. It is all speculation you have here. And besides, if everyone is taking flyers, exactly why is that a reason for you not to take them? What will you use to counter everyone else's flyers?

I didn't mean nerf with erata like that, but new codexes will probably have more skyfire options... And not to mention, more flyers are played, more opponent lists will be suited to deal with them...
But biggest problem is that I have to buy them 3 instead of only one... If I had them, or if I had enough money to buy hem without hesitation, I would field them three in a heartbeat... It's just I want to make competitive list with as many models that I have (and I have everything above except flyers and drop pods, so my second change is tied to it) and not to spend hoard of money for new models that might not be so OP in future...

Especially since he plays two main armies, 3 fliers are just too much.

I actually prefer the other list, the one with the dreads, it looks like it's ready to rip apart my Eldar like butter

Although, the one with drop pods is interesting. Maybe even more interesting, only thing I don't like about it are those marines out in the open. It's not that they'll die faster than they would in a Rhino, it's that they're slow so can't come closer to the objectives as reliably.

I will try dreads in this list and will try librarian with upgrade... I checked in ymdc... You pick old powers with librarian and during deployment choose either to stick with them or roll randomly from generic 6th edition powers... Which is quite cool, since you can finally make your libby more tacticaly suited for many diferent situations....
I could drop one terminator to test epistolar... With two powers, there are many cool combinations to consider...
First, i will definitely go with gate of infinity as my first power... If I don't take epistolar, null-zone would be my natural choice... But with 2 powers per turn, i am considering vortex of doom
That way i could jump, fire 10 s4, One ml and s10 ap1 blast on my opponent.....

If the Dark Angels codex is giving us any hints, (well, the rumors), the Whirlwind is going to be what gives Marines our skyfire. (That's if they don't add Flakk Missiles to our Missile Launchers)

EDIT: If you are worried about more codices getting skyfire, and such, that'll only happen with new codices, I doubt erratas will add much. I doubt we'll see Skyfire Missiles in the next Errata, or at all, since why would the pass up the opportunity to sell Whirlwind kits?

I've never even seen someone buy a Whirlwind kit.

Hahaha, you're right
Yet they plan to give something new each 3 months, either codex or some new white dwarf unit... I don't doubt flyers will be dominant for some time, but i believe that in a year metagame will change a lot... As I see it, you don't want to play flavor of the month, for month is short time... It's just too expensive:p
That is why i don't want to play any spam or anythin expensive and op... I want to make a balanced list that can challange any other list yet lose against them as well...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hahaha, you're right
Yet they plan to give something new each 3 months, either codex or some new white dwarf unit... I don't doubt flyers will be dominant for some time, but i believe that in a year metagame will change a lot... As I see it, you don't want to play flavor of the month, for month is short time... It's just too expensive:p
That is why i don't want to play any spam or anythin expensive and op... I want to make a balanced list that can challange any other list yet lose against them as well...

You Seem to be a little Skinny Round the edges in being able to take on Mass infantry , in a 1750 point game i can ( if i wanted to , i play mech guard lol ) take close to 350 Guardsmen , and around 100 conscripts , ......... im not saying everyone will do that but im saying that you have to consider it

Damn good choice on GoI and VoD imo. Want a good tip?

Put locator beacons on those drop pods, then your Libby and whatever squad he's in can effectively more up to 24" per turn, and fire, without the fear of a deepstrike mishap.

As he's in TDA he's classed as relentless so VoD will be a real nice surprise to drop on someones head in the same turn as having moved, they thought they were safe by being 36" away, hahahahahaha, how wrong they were!!

Kasrkin229 wrote:You Seem to be a little Skinny Round the edges in being able to take on Mass infantry , in a 1750 point game i can ( if i wanted to , i play mech guard lol ) take close to 350 Guardsmen , and around 100 conscripts , ......... im not saying everyone will do that but im saying that you have to consider it

Unfortunatly, there is not much anti infantry to choose from... But 2 vindies and 8 blasts, plus assaults from marines and termies is not to be taken lightly...

After many thoughts and calculations, i have came to latest modification... This one I like more than drop-pod one, primary because I hav no pods but have tons of rhinos

HQ: 140
Librarian (terminator armor, ss): 140

ELiTES: 485
Tac terminators (cml, chainfist): 235
Dreadnought (2x tl autocannon):125
Dreadnought (2x tl autocannon):125

TROOPS: 560
Tactical squad (flamer, ml, pf): 195
+ dedicated rhino: 35
Tactical squad (flamer, ml, pf): 195
+ dedicated rhino: 35
5x snipers ( ml, locator beacon): 100

FAST ATTACK: 335
Land speeder typhoon: 90
Land speeder typhoon: 90
Stormtalon gunship: 155

HEAVY SUPPORT: 230
Vindicator: 115
Vindicator: 115

TOTAL: 1750

With all this firepower, light-mid vehicles stand little chance... Against hordes, all those blasts from mls and vindicators, plus marines, should be able to do some heavy dmg before they close by, and with new and improved tac squads, it should be handable on this pts cap...
What I am really sad about is no variation to put in epistolar upgrade ( so no goi and vod combo:p)...
And what i feel that I will have problems with is AV14 vehicles, since there are no meltas in my list and only weaponry against it is chainfist and two vindies...

What I'm pondering about is second power for libby... GoI is auto-take with footy termies, but what of second one? I see no point in takin vortex, since I can't jump and shoot it without epistolar upgrade... So what I am considering is null-zone or avenger, though I could be easily persuaded into third option...

So you have seen my list... Would apriciate some critics and thoughts about it

I'm surprised you didn't think of Machine Curse? I don't have the cards or book with me right now and can't remember the specifics of each power, though it'd make sense to me to take GoI and a tank killer power, as everything else can take care of the troops, what you need is big AT. You could lose the Stormtalon for a LS with MM/HF combo and buy more stuff with the points saved.

Another tip, replace one of those Rhino's with a DP w/ locator beacon. Then your Libby and Termi squad have 2 LB's to GoI on to, that means that they DO NOT have to test for DS mishap when they re-enter play

Nice thinking for machine curse! Totally forgot about that one! I see it working nicely with my ml
I would not drop stormtalon, for he is my, if nothing else, counter-flyer... Plus firepower it brings is amazing...
I was thinking to do that with pod, earlier, but I can't think of many situations where I would want to drop my tac squad near enemy... If I sticked to two pods, one with MM dread, then it would be ok... This way, I don't think so:p

Good point about the flyer, I forgot about that.

You just need it some place board central, and seems as Tac Marines are best at mid range anyway, that'd just do you favours if you ask me. The main point is that you're providing your Libby-nators with a 48" movement bubble (point a on the DP and point b on the mobile scout bikers). Your Marines can peg it for cover when they land. Hell, you'll have a say over what cover goes where anyway, so just grab the biggest damn thing you can and plonk it dead centre, then point your pod at it!

Chinchilla wrote:After many thoughts and calculations, i have came to latest modification... This one I like more than drop-pod one, primary because I hav no pods but have tons of rhinos

HQ: 140
Librarian (terminator armor, ss): 140

ELiTES: 485
Tac terminators (cml, chainfist): 235
Dreadnought (2x tl autocannon):125
Dreadnought (2x tl autocannon):125

TROOPS: 560
Tactical squad (flamer, ml, pf): 195
+ dedicated rhino: 35
Tactical squad (flamer, ml, pf): 195
+ dedicated rhino: 35
5x snipers ( ml, locator beacon): 100

FAST ATTACK: 335
Land speeder typhoon: 90
Land speeder typhoon: 90
Stormtalon gunship: 155

HEAVY SUPPORT: 230
Vindicator: 115
Vindicator: 115

TOTAL: 1750

With all this firepower, light-mid vehicles stand little chance... Against hordes, all those blasts from mls and vindicators, plus marines, should be able to do some heavy dmg before they close by, and with new and improved tac squads, it should be handable on this pts cap...
What I am really sad about is no variation to put in epistolar upgrade ( so no goi and vod combo:p)...
And what i feel that I will have problems with is AV14 vehicles, since there are no meltas in my list and only weaponry against it is chainfist and two vindies...

What I'm pondering about is second power for libby... GoI is auto-take with footy termies, but what of second one? I see no point in takin vortex, since I can't jump and shoot it without epistolar upgrade... So what I am considering is null-zone or avenger, though I could be easily persuaded into third option...

So you have seen my list... Would apriciate some critics and thoughts about it

List looks solid, I use something similar but have different units, in fast slot i have 3 attack bikes with MM as T5 2W cheap MM mobile platform, it costs 150pts.

Tactical I have cheap with MM/flamer and plasma cannon/meltagun, without PF(25pts for PF is too much for me for single standard marine).

I dont have stormtalon so i use ADL with quadgun and i have scouts with snipers and camos with telion(dont have ML and locator beacen with them) inside it.

Vindis are good, sometimes change them with predators, dakka dreadnoughts are always in list, i like these units.