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Just read their background and the background to their Chapter Master.

I like the fact that they are basically the attack dogs of the High Lords of Terra and that no Astartes Chapter will ally with them, especially those from the Ultramarines and their successors. Also liking the extreme violence that this Chapter is known for and it's effectiveness against other Astartes.

I got a couple of questions...

First of all, considering the relics they have once belonged to the Custodes and they are supported directly by the High Lords, could their Gene Seed be based on the Custodes?

Secondly, are they based visually and literally on Spartans?

Spartans were incredibly violent and immensely skilled in battle, IMO Spartans and the Minotaurs share some key elements.

Puscifer wrote:Just read their background and the background to their Chapter Master.

I like the fact that they are basically the attack dogs of the High Lords of Terra and that no Astartes Chapter will ally with them, especially those from the Ultramarines and their successors. Also liking the extreme violence that this Chapter is known for and it's effectiveness against other Astartes.

I got a couple of questions...

First of all, considering the relics they have once belonged to the Custodes and they are supported directly by the High Lords, could their Gene Seed be based on the Custodes?

Secondly, are they based visually and literally on Spartans?

Spartans were incredibly violent and immensely skilled in battle, IMO Spartans and the Minotaurs share some key elements.

They are based on Spartans, yes. Their shields and their armor are highly evident of that being the truth.
Being from the Custodes no. WE have no evidence apart from having relics from the Custodes.

Every Space Marine chapter is based on some kind of real-world military society or organization.

The Custodes are not exactly Space Marines, being a fore-runner to the experiments that lead to the creation of the Space Marines, and are probably not based on the Adeptus Custodes gene-seed. We're not even entirely certain that the Custodes even use gene-seed, at least not in the same way that it is used in Space Marines.

Custodes definitely seem to be a precursor, at least according to the artwork in the HH: Collected Visions.

Constantine Valdor certainly seems to look like a Terminator armour wearing Chapter Master.

The other artwork appears to point in that direction too.

But I digress...

I couldn't find any artwork or descriptions of what the marines looked like. Are they just standard marines or do they have a Spartan flare to them?

If they do, are there any parts that anyone could recommend to make marines more Spartan like?

Puscifer wrote:Custodes definitely seem to be a precursor, at least according to the artwork in the HH: Collected Visions.

Constantine Valdor certainly seems to look like a Terminator armour wearing Chapter Master.

The other artwork appears to point in that direction too.

But I digress...

I couldn't find any artwork or descriptions of what the marines looked like. Are they just standard marines or do they have a Spartan flare to them?

If they do, are there any parts that anyone could recommend to make marines more Spartan like?

Use Warrior of Chaos models or you can go to anvil industry where they have a ton of spartan models.

It's more like no chapter will willingly ally with them. Note the Badab War, pretty much an order that the loyalist chapters had to work alongside the Minotaurs.

I believe they are descended from Angron.

Manchu wrote:I believe they are descended from Angron.

I partially agree with you there.

They are described as Berserkers, but I don't think they are the frothing madmen that the World Eaters are.

I think they are closer to stoic, calm and cold blooded killers that use overwhelming force to accomplish their goals.

Like the Necromongers from The Chronicles of Riddick.

They were originally frothing madmen. And then they disappeared for a while. Now they are cold-blooded killers with the best toys, a bad attitude, and fanatical devotion to the High Lords ... If you have a mean dog, you keep it on a short leash.

Eh, well if the minotaurs descended from angron, then the carchadons show that corax had a really brutally scary side.

King Pariah wrote:Eh, well if the minotaurs descended from angron, then the carchadons show that corax had a really brutally scary side.

HE did.

Asherian Command wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Eh, well if the minotaurs descended from angron, then the carchadons show that corax had a really brutally scary side.

HE did.

Really? I've never read any of the novels, just online fluff from the likes of lexicanum and whatnot and Corax didn't seem like the type who emitted the "I'M GOING TO RIP OFF YOUR HEAD AND GAK DOWN YOUR THROAT!!!" vibe.

Manchu wrote:I believe they are descended from Angron.

So... Minotaurs being descended from World Eaters is fine, but Blood Ravens can't be Thousand Sons?

Manchu wrote:I believe they are descended from Angron.

If the Minotaurs' write-up in IA: XI is attempting to imply (or to encourage us to infer) anything it is this.

Moreover, the Custodes weren't frothing berserkers, and had more of a Roman/Byzantine aesthetic than the Minotaurs' Greek one.

Tadashi wrote:Minotaurs being descended from World Eaters is fine, but Blood Ravens can't be Thousand Sons?

They're both just fan theories. I think both are very cool ideas but there is no "proof" of either.

Manchu wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Minotaurs being descended from World Eaters is fine, but Blood Ravens can't be Thousand Sons?

They're both just fan theories. I think both are very cool ideas but there is no "proof" of either.

I'd say there's enough for both, and for other Chapters.

There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

Psienesis wrote:There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

And we would be fools to discard them without further investigation.

Tadashi wrote:

Psienesis wrote:There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

And we would be fools to discard them without further investigation.

Well theres not really any 'investigation' to do. We know what has been published, and all there is so far is rumours, hints, etc. Its not so much 'investigation' as 'waiting for GW to say one way or the other'. Arguing back and forth when no new information is being brought up isn't going to achieve anything, because both sides only have rumours and hints to go off.

motyak wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Psienesis wrote:There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

And we would be fools to discard them without further investigation.

Well theres not really any 'investigation' to do. We know what has been published, and all there is so far is rumours, hints, etc. Its not so much 'investigation' as 'waiting for GW to say one way or the other'. Arguing back and forth when no new information is being brought up isn't going to achieve anything, because both sides only have rumours and hints to go off.

*shrugs*Some people just dismiss it immediately. Me, I like to keep an open mind on the matter.

But it doesn't do anything to lay claim to something that can't be proven either. Never knew anything about the Minotaurs, now I do.

Tadashi wrote:

motyak wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Psienesis wrote:There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

And we would be fools to discard them without further investigation.

Well theres not really any 'investigation' to do. We know what has been published, and all there is so far is rumours, hints, etc. Its not so much 'investigation' as 'waiting for GW to say one way or the other'. Arguing back and forth when no new information is being brought up isn't going to achieve anything, because both sides only have rumours and hints to go off.

*shrugs*Some people just dismiss it immediately. Me, I like to keep an open mind on the matter.

Sorry if I was coming off as chastising you, I personally love these little hints at links, and this minotaurs one was something I hadn't come across before. I was only trying to say that no matter how much you poke around, you won't find more (that is going to change the discussion) than what has already been published, regardless of how hard you look. Its not like actual research, which can turn up new info by new authors, or new data from new tests, or anything like that, it is a search for information on a very limited topic (in terms of the literature), so investigating tends to turn into just more speculation. Not that we shouldn't investigate in the first place, as I said, I love these little links.

motyak wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

motyak wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Psienesis wrote:There's not. There's implications, rumors, tantalizing hints and much dancing about the issue (whether that's Blood Ravens or Minotaurs) but nothing concrete or incontrovertible.

And we would be fools to discard them without further investigation.

Well theres not really any 'investigation' to do. We know what has been published, and all there is so far is rumours, hints, etc. Its not so much 'investigation' as 'waiting for GW to say one way or the other'. Arguing back and forth when no new information is being brought up isn't going to achieve anything, because both sides only have rumours and hints to go off.

*shrugs*Some people just dismiss it immediately. Me, I like to keep an open mind on the matter.

Sorry if I was coming off as chastising you, I personally love these little hints at links, and this minotaurs one was something I hadn't come across before. I was only trying to say that no matter how much you poke around, you won't find more (that is going to change the discussion) than what has already been published, regardless of how hard you look. Its not like actual research, which can turn up new info by new authors, or new data from new tests, or anything like that, it is a search for information on a very limited topic (in terms of the literature), so investigating tends to turn into just more speculation. Not that we shouldn't investigate in the first place, as I said, I love these little links.

Oh I see. No worries then. Sorry for any offense.

All good. And in this case I'd come down on the side of the angron relationship rather than custodes, and I kind of like the idea of them having tamed the crazy dogs more or less, now they are mean bull terriers with spikey collars instead of mean bull terriers with no collars. Well, maybe a collar of khorne. Which is spikey. But I'm ramblind.

motyak wrote:All good. And in this case I'd come down on the side of the angron relationship rather than custodes, and I kind of like the idea of them having tamed the crazy dogs more or less, now they are mean bull terriers with spikey collars instead of mean bull terriers with no collars. Well, maybe a collar of khorne. Which is spikey. But I'm ramblind.

Agreed. All the World Eaters really needed was a firm hand - in this case, the High Lords might provide that for the Minotaurs.

The story of the Minotaurs is not complete. If they are bred from Angron's genes, who can say that they will always be loyal? I doubt the High Lords could succeed where the Emperor failed./ Well, "failed" if you believe the Emperor did not plan the Heresy himself.

Manchu wrote:The story of the Minotaurs is not complete. If they are bred from Angron's genes, who can say that they will always be loyal? I doubt the High Lords could succeed where the Emperor failed./ Well, "failed" if you believe the Emperor did not plan the Heresy himself.

Gene-seed will not give a guarantee of loyalty or treason. How many Chapters or Astartes since the end of the Horus Heresy have gone renegade, who had the gene-seed of the loyal legions? Why did the Thousand Sons Fourth Fellowship, a certain Iron Warrior garrison (and perhaps other garrisons), and the survivors of Istvaan III, remain loyal? Its a matter of nature vs. nurture. Let's see, since I'm Japanese, its in my nature to be a warrior. Yet I'm not in the military, nor do I have any plan to join.

Tadashi wrote:Let's see, since I'm Japanese, its in my nature to be a warrior. Yet I'm not in the military, nor do I have any plan to join.

Yes, I am English, it is in my nature to shoot arrows at wealthy Frenchmen. Which I do on a regular basis.

Buttons wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Let's see, since I'm Japanese, its in my nature to be a warrior. Yet I'm not in the military, nor do I have any plan to join.

Yes, I am English, it is in my nature to shoot arrows at wealthy Frenchmen. Which I do on a regular basis.

Lol...anyway, my point is, just because you have the gene-seed of the Traitor Legions, doesn't mean you're a guaranteed turncoat. Anymore than having the gene-seed of the loyal legions guarantees your loyalty.

Tadashi wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Let's see, since I'm Japanese, its in my nature to be a warrior. Yet I'm not in the military, nor do I have any plan to join.

Yes, I am English, it is in my nature to shoot arrows at wealthy Frenchmen. Which I do on a regular basis.

Lol...anyway, my point is, just because you have the gene-seed of the Traitor Legions, doesn't mean you're a guaranteed turncoat. Anymore than having the gene-seed of the loyal legions guarantees your loyalty.

I completely agree with you, just making a joke.