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Quick question I ran into the other day.. My opponent had his stormraven come from reserves and we were wondering if the passengers could assault that turn? the reserves rules say that unless stated otherwise units coming in from reserves may not assault that turn (pg 125) and the assault vehicle rules say that passengers disembarking from acces points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so... Your opinions? Does the assault vehicle rule overrule the reserves rule?

Typically the more specific rule applies...in this case, I think would be the assault vehicle rule. This will require more research. I don't have the book w/ me.

Entering in hover mode does not allow the passengers to disembark, as you need to move more than 6 inches to get the SR on the board.

Robbietobbie wrote:Quick question I ran into the other day.. My opponent had his stormraven come from reserves and we were wondering if the passengers could assault that turn? the reserves rules say that unless stated otherwise units coming in from reserves may not assault that turn (pg 125) and the assault vehicle rules say that passengers disembarking from acces points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so... Your opinions? Does the assault vehicle rule overrule the reserves rule?

No, the assault vehicle rule overrides the disembarking from a vehicle rule. The reserve rule is most specific in this scenario.

And that's beside the fact that DR is correct - you'd have to move more than 6" to get on the board.

Skies of Blood lets you disembark even if it moved flat out, doesn't it?

pretre wrote:Skies of Blood lets you disembark even if it moved flat out, doesn't it?

But also specifically prohibits assaulting.

EDIT: To the OP, I don't see how it's possible given the restrictions on disembarking and the size of the SR as stated above.

What if the size of the vehicle wasn't an issue? What if it was something like a Dark Eldar raider turned sideways or a venom? Both are Assault vehicles.

Granted, nothing about 'assault vehicles' states that it works from reserve.

That's actually a good point for a stormraven though the question still stands for stuff like dark eldar raiders.. Those could move onto the board with less than 6"


stolen by ThePhish ^^

ThePhish wrote:What if the size of the vehicle wasn't an issue? What if it was something like a Dark Eldar raider turned sideways or a venom? Both are Assault vehicles.

Granted, nothing about 'assault vehicles' states that it works from reserve.

Assault Vehicle only overrides the disembarking restriction. You still have the "from reserves" restriction.

rigeld2 wrote:Assault Vehicle only overrides the disembarking restriction. You still have the "from reserves" restriction.

This is correct.

You still came from reserves, meaning you can't assault.

PG 125 Reserves "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge..."

VS

PG 33 Assault Vehicle "Passengers disembarking...can charge on the turn they do so..."


Special overrides General or no?

EDIT: NVM I get the reserves part now... carry on.

That;s exactly what I was thinking.. that it overrides the restrictions on disembarking and then assaulting... Though I can imagine that people might argue that the assault vehicle rule is indiscriminate...

The assault vehicle rule only allows you to charge the turn you get out of the vehicle. A deep striking landraider doesn't allow you charge the turn you get out.

juraigamer wrote:The assault vehicle rule only allows you to charge the turn you get out of the vehicle. A deep striking landraider doesn't allow you charge the turn you get out.

oh how ba would break the game if that happened.

Not that you'd want to waste the transports this way... but for theory purposes. Can anyone see any issues with Vanguard Veterans assaulting on the turn they arrive from reserve in a deep-striking Land Raider, or from a Stormraven?

Yes, because they can only charge when using their Jump Packs to deepstrike

For the OP, is the stormraven a dedicated transport? If not, wouldn't you also be running a huge risk that the stormraven and its cargo may or may not arrive together?

Sorry, I don't have a Blood Angel codex..

Super Ready wrote:Not that you'd want to waste the transports this way... but for theory purposes. Can anyone see any issues with Vanguard Veterans assaulting on the turn they arrive from reserve in a deep-striking Land Raider, or from a Stormraven?

Heroic intervention writes specifically when they use jump packs so i would say no. Since that's the only way one might think vanguards can assaults they come from deep strike.

Thanks nos/pizza, that makes perfect sense.

That's not even the main point here.

@deathreaper: A stormraven(aflyer) has a 5" base. Under flyer rules you use the base for !movement! and disembarking purposes. So a stormraven can move six inches and disembark and assault.

And the rule dose say unless stated otherwise you may not assault. Assault ramps stat otherwise. So I guess you guys will have to wait for an FAQ.

So dose the codex rule override the BRB?? Because GW says codex overrules rulebook.

Masos wrote:@deathreaper: A stormraven(aflyer) has a 5" base. Under flyer rules you use the base for !movement! and disembarking purposes. So a stormraven can move six inches and disembark and assault.

Yes. A Stormraven cannot move onto the board 6", however - because then some of the model would not be on the board and it'd be destroyed.

And the rule dose say unless stated otherwise you may not assault. Assault ramps stat otherwise. So I guess you guys will have to wait for an FAQ.

Assault Ramps override the moving vehicle restriction on assault. There's a more general "not from reserves" restriction on assault.

Just got an official answer from 2 guys down at GW. They say you may not assault because the unit is still under the coming in from reserve restrictions.

Your model has to have a special rule that say "the unit may assault when arriving from reserve"

This is why we have judges.

Masos wrote:Just got an official answer from 2 guys down at GW. They say you may not assault because the unit is still under the coming in from reserve restrictions.

Your model has to have a special rule that say "the unit may assault when arriving from reserve"

This is why we have judges.

Even though that agrees with me, it's useless in a rules discussion

page 125 "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge... in the turn it arrives from reserve"

page 33 "Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so..."

2 ways to read this:

1) page 125 is asking or a statement otherwise that a unit can charge while coming in from reserve

2) page 125 is asking for a statement that the unit can charge that turn

Option 1, assault vehicle does not meet

Option 2, it does... but isn't every unit told it "can" charge after a move?

I think we need option 1, and that would be my ruling in a game, but I won't be shocked if an FAQ down the road says that Assault Vehicles can assault in from reserves.

A storm raven is a flyer. Flyers must start in reserve and come on zooming. Thus you cannot hover since the flyer is zooming. The only way to disembark is by skies of blood which disallows assaults.

Assault vehicles allow you yo assault when you disembark. This does not override coming from reserves only the disembarkation rules.

Vanguard vets can assault from deepstrike with heroic intervention. This overrides the no deep strike assault rule which over rides the reserves rule of no deep striking since it is coming from reserves.

If a model has rule like heroic intervention which allows it to assault from reserves and is in an assault vehicle then yes this is allowed.

VV are specifically not allowed to assault when using skies of blood from the storm raven fyi. So you cannot zoom

I have to agree with the no for the assault. The vehicles say you can assault from them, but they do not say you can assault from them on the turn they arrive.

rogueeyes wrote:A storm raven is a flyer. Flyers must start in reserve and come on zooming.

The underlined is not correct. The Stormraven has the Hover type.

P.81:

"A Flyer with the Hover type must declare whether it is going to Zoom or Flover before it moves each Movement phase. This means that, if the Flyer arrives from reserve, you must declare which rype of movement it is using before placing it on the board."

Again, is the stormraven a dedicated transport?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:For the OP, is the stormraven a dedicated transport? If not, wouldn't you also be running a huge risk that the stormraven and its cargo may or may not arrive together?

No the SR is not a Dedicated transport, but I do not follow, why does it matter?

Embarked units will arrive together with their transport they are embarked upon.