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Some psychic powers must be cast at the start of the player's movement phase.

However, if you have reserves, you have to roll for them and then move them on the table.

Therefore, your psyker should not be able to cast any powers, because it is no longer the start of the movement phase.

Correct or incorrect, please cite the rules for me.


Edit
Page 9 exceptions rule overrides this. Yay.

KGatch113 wrote:
Some psychic powers must be cast at the start of the player's movement phase.

However, if you have reserves, you have to roll for them and then move them on the table.

Therefore, your psyker should not be able to cast any powers, because it is no longer the start of the movement phase.

Correct or incorrect, please cite the rules for me.

Correct, rulebook page 125, "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve."

Mandor wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:
Some psychic powers must be cast at the start of the player's movement phase.

However, if you have reserves, you have to roll for them and then move them on the table.

Therefore, your psyker should not be able to cast any powers, because it is no longer the start of the movement phase.

Correct or incorrect, please cite the rules for me.

Correct, rulebook page 125, "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve."

I am referring to models already on the table when the reserves come in. You can't cast powers before you do reserves/movements of those units, and thus, once the reserve units have moved, it is no longer the start of the movement phase.

They can cast their powers. Although it can only affect models already on the board.

KGatch113 wrote:
Some psychic powers must be cast at the start of the player's movement phase.

However, if you have reserves, you have to roll for them and then move them on the table.

Therefore, your psyker should not be able to cast any powers, because it is no longer the start of the movement phase.

Correct or incorrect, please cite the rules for me.

pg124 BGB - "Arriving from Reserve - At the start of your turn two" this is before start of the movement phase
pg125 BGB - "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve." If you have an ability or power that is used at the start of the turn you can not use them. Most new psychic powers are cast in the players movement phase.

Basically, Arriving from reserves in the BGB happens at the start of the turn. You can not do anything in the movement phase until after you complete "arriving from reserve". therefore, powers and abilities that are used in the movement phase CAN be used.

pg125 BGB - "Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve." If you have an ability or power that is used at the start of the turn you can not use them. Most new psychic powers are cast in the players movement phase.

or

Basically, Arriving from reserves in the BGB happens at the start of the turn. You can not do anything in the movement phase until after you complete "arriving from reserve". therefore, powers and abilities that are used in the movement phase CAN be used.

make your mind up

spongemonkee wrote:
make your mind up

i don't understand your confusion? please explain.

reserves happen at the start of your turn

you start the movement phase after "Arriving from Reserves"

now cast psychic powers that are cast "At beginning of movement phase"

I do agree that abilities that state "use at beginning of the turn" will have difficulties being used when arriving from reserve.

STart of your turn IS the movement phase. Nothing happens before the movement phase begins.Page 9.

KGatch113 wrote:


STart of your turn IS the movement phase. Nothing happens before the movement phase begins.Page 9.

I have to disagree.

Its clear that you have to arrive from reserve before stating your movement phase. otherwise the "start of movement phase" and "start of turn" would be simultaneous and you could move units before arriving from reserve by deep strike, outflank, etc..


Start of turn
start of movement phase
end of movement phase
start of shooting phase
end of shooting phase
start of assault phase
end of assault phase
End of turn

Except that the rules state you start with reserves. What happens in the movement phase...you move models.

How do you place reserves??? you move models.Seems to me that happens in the movement phase.

I stated the page that shows the turn summary. Move, Shoot, Assault. Please quote for me the page that says there is something before the Movement phase begins.

The rules are quite clear. There is no indication of some unmentioned phase that occurs before the Movement phase. The start of the Movement phase is the start of the turn.

If the consensus is that reserves arrive before the Movement Phase, keep in mind that:

- Models with Jink won't get a cover save when they move onto the board, unless they Flat-Out or Turbo-Boost in the shooting phase
- Jump Units can only move 6" when they arrive
- A unit arriving from reserves cannot embark in a vehicle the turn it arrives
- Fliers wreck in the Movement Phase after they arrive
- (I'm sure I missed a lot more)

The rules do not define anything before the Movement Phase, so it's a bit unclear whether or not "Start of the Turn" is the same as "Start of the Movement Phase." However, if the start of the turn is not during the Movement Phase, then bad things happen with the game. So HIWPI (at least without a lot of errata) is that the Start of the Turn occurs during the Movement Phase, but before the "Start of the Movement Phase."

I suppose one could make an argument to make both starts the same, but doing so would allow you to use Psychic powers before reserves arrive -- and I think that is not intended.

mgrosh wrote:
Its clear that you have to arrive from reserve before stating your movement phase. otherwise the "start of movement phase" and "start of turn" would be simultaneous and you could move units before arriving from reserve by deep strike, outflank, etc..

The reserves rule states that when reserves arrive, you place them on the table and then move the rest of your units. And you roll reserves at the start of the turn. So you can't move other units first.

mgrosh wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:


pg124 BGB - "Arriving from Reserve - At the start of your turn two" this is before start of the movement phase

The bolded part isn't supported by RAW.

See the wording on the Skyshield Landing Pad, BRB pg 115

"At the start of the movement phase (before rolling for reserves)..."

Interestingly the GK codex has a power called psychic communion which allows you to adjust reserve rolls by +1/-1. It states that it is used at the start of the movement phase.

jadedknight wrote:Interestingly the GK codex has a power called psychic communion which allows you to adjust reserve rolls by +1/-1. It states that it is used at the start of the movement phase.

The important question is "When does the start of the movement phase end?"

Is it after you bring in a single unit from reserve?
is it after you bring in all your reserves?

So then. If you have reserves, you cannot use any psychic powers that require use at the start of the movement phase.

Based on P8, under Exceptions, if you've got things that take place at the same time, the player whose turn it is resolves them in the order of their choice.

If a psychic power must be cast at the beginning of the movement phase, and you have reserves at the beginning of the turn, you may pick to arrive from reserves first or cast powers first.

In that capacity, yes, you could cast those powers after moving on from reserve.

Just read the psyker and spell section carefully, it expressly covers this... example, all Blessings happen at the start of the movement phase. Book states that No spells that must be used at the start of the movement phase can be used by casters that arrived from reserves this turn... (doing all that from memory, so don't quote me) we found it Sunday in our game. It's in there. Don't have my book handy today... again, check the Psykers / Blessing / Casting section.

Cheers,

Tactica wrote:Just read the psyker and spell section carefully, it expressly covers this... example, all Blessings happen at the start of the movement phase. Book states that No spells that must be used at the start of the movement phase can be used by casters that arrived from reserves this turn... (doing all that from memory, so don't quote me) we found it Sunday in our game. It's in there. Don't have my book handy today... again, check the Psykers / Blessing / Casting section.

Cheers,

I didn't read that part, good find.

So based on that, if the psyker is already present on the board, he can cast either before or after reserves, including a spell to affect something that has arrived from reserve this turn, but if the caster is the thing arriving, he can't cast those spells that turn.

Beamo wrote:

Tactica wrote:Just read the psyker and spell section carefully, it expressly covers this... example, all Blessings happen at the start of the movement phase. Book states that No spells that must be used at the start of the movement phase can be used by casters that arrived from reserves this turn... (doing all that from memory, so don't quote me) we found it Sunday in our game. It's in there. Don't have my book handy today... again, check the Psykers / Blessing / Casting section.

Cheers,

I didn't read that part, good find.

So based on that, if the psyker is already present on the board, he can cast either before or after reserves, including a spell to affect something that has arrived from reserve this turn, but if the caster is the thing arriving, he can't cast those spells that turn.

yep.

Tactica wrote:Just read the psyker and spell section carefully, it expressly covers this... example, all Blessings happen at the start of the movement phase. Book states that No spells that must be used at the start of the movement phase can be used by casters that arrived from reserves this turn... (doing all that from memory, so don't quote me) we found it Sunday in our game. It's in there. Don't have my book handy today... again, check the Psykers / Blessing / Casting section.

Cheers,

The quoted rule with a page number is literally second post in this very topic posted 12 hours ago. People still go about wondering if it is possible.

What amazes me is how many people have not fully read what I posted.

This is NOT about a psychic coming ONTO the board from reserves and using powers.

It's about IF a caster already on the table can cast powers, because the start of the movement phase, when he has to cast, involves bringing in reserves.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beamo wrote:

Tactica wrote:Just read the psyker and spell section carefully, it expressly covers this... example, all Blessings happen at the start of the movement phase. Book states that No spells that must be used at the start of the movement phase can be used by casters that arrived from reserves this turn... (doing all that from memory, so don't quote me) we found it Sunday in our game. It's in there. Don't have my book handy today... again, check the Psykers / Blessing / Casting section.

Cheers,

I didn't read that part, good find.

So based on that, if the psyker is already present on the board, he can cast either before or after reserves, including a spell to affect something that has arrived from reserve this turn, but if the caster is the thing arriving, he can't cast those spells that turn.

Nope, the caster on the board can't, because the reserves have to come in at the start of the movement phase, and thus, the psychic is barred from using his power.

Based on P8, under Exceptions, if you've got things that take place at the same time, the player whose turn it is resolves them in the order of their choice.

If a psychic power must be cast at the beginning of the movement phase, and you have reserves at the beginning of the turn, you may pick to arrive from reserves first or cast powers first.

In that capacity, yes, you could cast those powers after moving on from reserve.

@KGatch113 Then to the original question this clearly enables me to use 'start of turn' psychic powers before I bring in reserves which also happens at the 'start of turn'. Just not powers from characters in reserve which is explicitly disallowed.

jadedknight wrote:

Based on P8, under Exceptions, if you've got things that take place at the same time, the player whose turn it is resolves them in the order of their choice.

If a psychic power must be cast at the beginning of the movement phase, and you have reserves at the beginning of the turn, you may pick to arrive from reserves first or cast powers first.

In that capacity, yes, you could cast those powers after moving on from reserve.

@KGatch113 Then to the original question this clearly enables me to use 'start of turn' psychic powers before I bring in reserves which also happens at the 'start of turn'. Just not powers from characters in reserve which is explicitly disallowed.

Unfortunately, that p8 quote, which is actually on p9, is taken out of context.

KGatch113 wrote:

jadedknight wrote:

Based on P8, under Exceptions, if you've got things that take place at the same time, the player whose turn it is resolves them in the order of their choice.

If a psychic power must be cast at the beginning of the movement phase, and you have reserves at the beginning of the turn, you may pick to arrive from reserves first or cast powers first.

In that capacity, yes, you could cast those powers after moving on from reserve.

@KGatch113 Then to the original question this clearly enables me to use 'start of turn' psychic powers before I bring in reserves which also happens at the 'start of turn'. Just not powers from characters in reserve which is explicitly disallowed.

Unfortunately, that p8 quote, which is actually on p9, is taken out of context.

Yeah, it's very clear from specific examples posted in this thread that reserves are rolled at the start of the movement phase, and so "start of the turn" and "start of the movement phase" are the same thing (skyshield landing pad, BRB 115).

After rereading specific sections of the codex and some of the constructive posts here, I agree with Ostrakon. Start of turn and Start of movement phase are the same thing.

reserves come in at the start of the turn/movement phase.