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http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2012/07/6th-ed-primer-necrons.html

6th Ed has shifted the codex balance, and also changed how units work in 40k. The Necron primer is the first in a series of primer articles, which will help you work out what's hot and what's not.

Note that the primer will be short and sweet. Won't be anything massively indepth.

HQ


Imotekh the Stormlord


Was meh before and still meh now. Perhaps only worth while is you're using Scarab farm lists, though I still do not see the point. Just take Royal Court's with solar pulse's, the Scarabs should be in range for assault turn two and two turn's of night fighting will save their bacon a bit.

Nemesor Zahndrekh


Adaptive and counter tactics are pretty useful, though 185 points is a lot to give your own units a few special rules. Can't say Nemesor has anything else going for him.

Vargard Obyron


Probably is the best named Necron character in the codex. 2+ armour save means Obyron is pretty tough in combat, add cleaving counterblow and he's going to chop stuff into tiny little bits. If you want killy and mobile, then Obyron is your guy.

Illuminor Szeras


Expensive Cryptek character. Avoid, unless you want a cool model.

Orikan the Diviner


A Necron Warrior with two wounds and a heavy weapon and also phase shifter. Can transform into a stronger and tougher version, though points cost is too much for something which randomly starts and randomly ends.

Anrakyr the Traveller

Not a too bad choice for killy combat purposes (Obyron is still better). At least can take a Royal Court and has a warscythe, so CCB sweeping goodness. I am not sure if his mind in the machine ability works out of vehicles (cannot find in rulebook) and 5th ed FAQ no longer applies.

Trazyn the Infinite


Meh, moving on.

Necron Overlord


Probably the best HQ in the codex. Only need to take if on a CCB. Phaeron isn't probably needed, as rapid fire rules only allow to assault after shooting; you don't want Necrons in combat, unless dedicated assault 'Crons.

Destroyer Lord


Good beat stick unit, shame cannot have a Royal Court, and really only adds what other Necron close combat units can do. Maybe escort with Scarabs and then split to attack weak infantry units. Preferred enemy did also get nerfed, which effects this guy.

Royal Court


Necron Lord is ok if you like paying big points for a single wound robot.

Cryptek's are much better and offer significant options; Despairtek with Deathmarks still works and can also teleport better thanks to new deep strike mishap table; Lanceteks rip hull points off vehicles and make it dark; Stormtek is ace with haywire and that's about it; Transtek keeps your Necrons out of assault with the crucible.

Elites


Deathmarks


Went from meh to awesome. Rapid fire sniper guns, which means these guys can double tap at 12" or long range fire 24". Add that they have the sniper rule, so they have precision shot (excellent for taking out characters) and will always wound on a 4+, is also pinning and has the rending special rule. Add that they can deep strike after a enemy unit has arrived from reserved (this means a enemy unit just coming onto the board), means they come on in the opponent's turn (you get more movement from them). They can also target a unit as prey and wound on a 2+.

These guys are wicked sick, excellent distraction units, and not too expensive. Probably one of the best elite units in the Necron codex.

Lychguard


A bit meh, even with the awesome warscythes. They only have 3+ armour to keep them alive, and with the hyperphase sword they are only AP3 and get a 4+ inv (can bounce shots back on 6+). Too expensive really for what they do.

Triarch Praetorians


Perhaps even more meh, as the rod of convenant is a power axe (though looks like a staff to me), which has the unwieldly rule and is +1 strength and AP . Jump infantry rules make them slightly better, but they lost the little power they did have.

C'Tan Shard


Over priced monstrous creature. Meh.

Flayed One Pack


Perhaps even more rubbish as units cannot assault if they infilitrate or outflank. So only option is run across the battlefield doing moon walk impressions.

Triarch Stalker


Better moving through terrain as it can ignore dangerous terrain, that's about how much better the Stalker got in 6th. Still works nicely in concert with Warriors and Ghost Ark's, the more to hit means more to glance and wreck. Not a bad unit, but no where near the best and definitely not the worst.

Troops


Necron Warriors


Cheap troops.

Necron Immortals


Troops with 3+ armour save. Gauss is better on these guys.

Ghost Ark


Makes Warriors more survivable. Excellent piece of kit.

Night Scythe


Foundation for a true flyer build. Not exactly mega tough, but not open topped like most things in the Necron codex. Now is even better with the invasion beams.

Fast Attack


Canoptek Wraiths


Awesome. Like every other multi wound model in 40k, Wraiths become more survivable. They benefit well from hammer of wrath as they're S6 base too. Whip coils also work better; no I3 G.K nemesis halberds! .

Canoptek Scarabs


Slightly better, as beasts now move 12" and ignore dangerous terrain. They don't get stealth rule any more, swarm rule lost that. At least fearless doesn't screw these guys over.

Tomb Blades


Just does anti infantry like any other Necron unit. Maybe add gauss blasters and use them as cheaper Destroyers. Shield vanes are expensive, but probably the best upgrade, it's not like you're going to be flat out all the time to benefit from stealth in the best way.

Destroyers


Still meh and too expensive; re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound isn't that awesome sauce.

Heavy Support


Doomsday Ark


Gone up in the world, as blast templates only need to touch vehicles; this bad boy is AP1 so is going to break stuff. Add in that outflanking units cannot assault when they arrive, so the Doomsday is safe not too far from the board edge. It's a lot more viable choice than before, but Annihilation Barges out shine them.

Annihilation Barge


Was awesome and is still awesome. Who needs a.a when you've tesla! Second bonus is that AP- is no longer bothered by the vehicle damage, and the Annihilation Barge loves to glance armour.

Necron Monolith


Still gets nuked by melta, so no change, really. Particle whip is slightly better thanks to the blast template rules against vehicles.

Doom Scythe


Second half of the Necron-Scythe build, the first true all flyer list. Blows stuff up really fast, and now more survivable.

Canoptek Spyder


Only major change for monstrous creature's is fear, which is handy for the Spyder as it's only WS3. Can get cover saves easier - hide it behind infantry!. Still a pretty cheap monstrous creature.

That's the Necron primer, folks. What do you think is hot and what's not now we're using 6th ed?

You're spacing is awful. Here's a more legible version:


Also, this is the worst "primer" I've ever read. Get your ideas together and rewrite everything to explain your decisions. Calling something "meh" tells me all.

I actually liked it a lot, the only problem is that sometimes you just say "meh" and dont explain why the units are bad in your opinion, everything else is really good!

Ehem, how did PE get nerfed? You are aware of the fact that it also works with shooting now AND is distributed to the entire squad (!) thus a DL in a squad of Wraiths will give all Wraiths PE too.

Sweeping isn't the main reason for CCBs anymore with the highly nerfed range either...

...and Prats got worse? Eh...they got AP 2 weapons now which are pretty rare in 6th, not to mention they can shoot before assaulting. They got a LOT better.

I second the vote for further elaboration on your part as of right now, I disagree with quite a few points.

I have to disagree with a lot of these assertions.

Preferred enemy didn't really get "Nerfed" It got changed, it works on Shooting and Assault, and confers it to the unit. So, the Destroyer Lord got a lot better.

I don't see how you can say Triarch Praetorians got worse, when they clearly got significantly better. Hammer of Wrath, and one of the few Units with reliable AP2 makes these guys pretty good. They shoot from "Pretty good" to 'Very Good" With a Dlord conferring PE enemy to them, since it affects their shooting, and CC.

I also Disagree with your view on destroyers. Not only do they reroll 1's on hit and wounds, which considering they are hitting on 3's, and wounding most things on 3's makes a pretty big difference. Gauss can also strip hullpoints on a 6', they can function as both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. I think as time goes on, we'll be seeing more infantry, and less troops, and people will start taking these more.

Wasn't PE in 5th re-roll misses? And now its shooting and CC, but you only re-roll on 1's.... Preatorians annoy me, how is the two-handed 'Rod of Covenant' Unwieldy but the two handed, Ap1 armorbane warscythe not? So preatorians, which are designed to kill deathstars, now swing at the same time as chain/powerfists? with only a 3+ save?!

Exalted Pariah wrote:Wasn't PE in 5th re-roll misses? And now its shooting and CC, but you only re-roll on 1's.... Preatorians annoy me, how is the two-handed 'Rod of Covenant' Unwieldy but the two handed, Ap1 armorbane warscythe not? So preatorians, which are designed to kill deathstars, now swing at the same time as chain/powerfists? with only a 3+ save?!

Correct, but they also get a Strength 5 AP2 shots, and with a Dlord, they reoll the misses and the wounds that are 1s. Since you hit on 3's and Wound on 3s, against most things, you are rerolling half your misses/wounds. That's pretty good, and that's only the shooting part. I'll be playing some Terminator heavy armies soon, and I think these will be a great solution if they start to get to close to my stuff. You should be able to kill 1-2 before you even swing at them. The Dlord may be able to kill another, before they swing, and MSS may be able to stop them from swinging. You also have the Hammer Of Wrath attacks.

Basically, you can kill 1-2 (MAYBE 3 if you get lucky) before you even hit combat. The Dlord may be able to take another, and MSS may snag a 4th. You can pretty much reduce how many are swinging at you, down to 2 or 3, before they even get a chance to swing. This should ensure at least 1-2 Praetorians survive, for RP, while the Terminators will likely be finished off.

Have to agree with Sasori here. I think it's a little to early to start making comments when you haven't play tested out many of the potential combos. There is a lot that has been missed and some bad assertions.

D-lords became a lot better since they can confer their Preferred Enemy to other units.

Zahndrekh giving out Tank Hunters is now best utilized by large units of Warriors instead of Heavy Destroyers thanks to how the new rule works. Throw in the D-lord too and you have a brutal shooting unit that can stand up to challenges very well, does better in cc than it did in 5th and has better resilience thanks to the wound allocation rules.

Scarabs became the ultimate tarpits. Scarab farming went from ok to pretty damn good. Instead of buying cc specialists yourself or mobile shooting platforms you can rest assured Scarabs will tarpit whatever they hit. If farming the length of that tarpit is indefinite.

Tomb blades are not a shooty unit. They can hit targets of opportunity but really they are best served as denial units (or scoring) in that particular mission. Reserve them, then turbo boost around the back table edge until it's time to make a play for objectives. This hasn't changed much from 5th.

In 5th there was no contest between Gauss and Tesla...Tesla won hands down thanks to how glancing worked. Now with Hull points being stripped on glances there is a genuine dilemma on how to kit stuff out. Getting the balance right will be one of the things that Necron players will have to think very carefully about. Players will need to make sure they have enough Gauss before moving onto Tesla.

Just some thoughts.

Sasori wrote:I have to disagree with a lot of these assertions.

Preferred enemy didn't really get "Nerfed" It got changed, it works on Shooting and Assault, and confers it to the unit. So, the Destroyer Lord got a lot better.

I don't see how you can say Triarch Praetorians got worse, when they clearly got significantly better. Hammer of Wrath, and one of the few Units with reliable AP2 makes these guys pretty good. They shoot from "Pretty good" to 'Very Good" With a Dlord conferring PE enemy to them, since it affects their shooting, and CC.

I also Disagree with your view on destroyers. Not only do they reroll 1's on hit and wounds, which considering they are hitting on 3's, and wounding most things on 3's makes a pretty big difference. Gauss can also strip hullpoints on a 6', they can function as both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. I think as time goes on, we'll be seeing more infantry, and less troops, and people will start taking these more.

I'm gonna back Sasori here. There is way way too much "MEH" on your reviews of units. I mean, reading it basically everything is either terrible or middle of the road but a few units. Units that are much better in 6E include:

- Nemesor Zahndrekh - With some of the changes to USR his buffs are awesome now. Tank Hunter. Give Stealth to a Skimmer and then Jink. Yes, you can give your Monolith a 4+ cover save.
- Orikan the Diviner- Reserve roll love for your fliers and he's tough (even with the random roll)
- Varguard Obyron - Guy is a beater right now, and a 2+ save is much better
- Destroyer Lord - He gives PE to his whole unit, and with a 2+ he's strong, strong
- Stormteks - Haywire staff is a trainwreck when you use it on units
- Despairteks - That flamer template is awesome on snap shot attack
- CCB - It changed, but it is still good. The chariot rules make for all kinds of crazy stuff you can do.
- Deathmarks - You hit this one. They are very good.
- Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers - They are good for their niche. Are they competetive? Maybe in a gunline army. PE was a big buff for them. They only miss on 2s ..
- Nightscythe - Flyer power
- Doomscythe - Flyer power
- Canoptek Spyders - The fear is a bonus, they also can repair now. So if you take scarab farm w/ fabricator claw, on a 4+ you restore a hull point. Smash is super nice now.
- Canoptek Wraiths - They gained a free attack as Jump Infantry. Essentially buffed an already strong unit.
- Triarch Preatorians - Probably "most improved" unit. They went from totally worthless to now a contender for the Necrons strongest assault unit with a Dlord
- Doomsday Ark - SLIGHT improvement with the template changes. They are still not really worth taking over an Annhilation Barge or Doomscythe in the same slot.
- Monolith - Still fairly craptastic, but it gets Jink now, and I believe there was a change that allows it to actually send a full compliment of warriors through the door (20). Also benefits the most from spyder healing.
- Scarabs - Someone mentioned this but with the changes to Fearless and Beasts, they are still great at blowing up vehicles and tarpitting stuff you don't want to kill you.

There's other stuff I am sure I am missing. But needless to say when you are writing a "primer" you gotta get some of this stuff in there. "MEH" is just not a detailed response on why something is good or bad.

Not to mention that a DLord with a MSS will faceroll any challenger dumb enough to challenge him. Since only two models are in BC with each other, it seems that the MSS would work wonders in having your opponent hit themselves in the face.

Necron Lord is ok if you like paying big points for a single wound robot.

I would like to disagree with this if I may.The Necron Lord is awesome for making big scary hq's or any unit with a killy Sargent think twice in fear of a challenge where they get MSS then maybe a few smacks from a war scythe. That is just from my 6th experience though.

Flayed One Pack

They are a very legitimate threat to vehicles now (7 bases wreck for a direct assault, 10 bases for a split assault, so 20 Flayed Ones can pretty reliably kill 2 vehicles a turn when in assault range). As they are a swamp/area denial unit, and this was the one area they struggled in this roll, this fills in that gap nicely. Want a unit with a big foot print/threat range and a lot of resiliency to book end a Jump Infantry heavy assault list? Bring Flayed Ones.

C'Tan Shard
Mono's went up in survivability. This might make them more viable. Also Stealth+Shrouding=2+ cover save C'Tan, FWIW.


Tomb Blades

Keep in mind that Stealth (Shadowlooms) stacks with Shrouding (24" to 36" Night Fighting). So now TBs can run around the flanks and pew pew with a 2+ Cover Save against most return fire. I'd say Shadowlooms are a damn near must take now (if you take them at all, which is tough with the other great FA choices).

Sasori hit up the rest pretty well.

Monolith

Can snap fire the Arcs with the Particle Whip now, and the Whip itself is much better against vehicles now, not just slightly better. Also, I think people are severely underestimating their increase in survivability. Jink+Nemesor+Shrouding (from NF)=2+ Cover Save....on and AV 14 Monster with living metal. So like....(maths maths maths) 27 Las Cannon shots to remove one hull point (and have a 16.67% chance of explode)? Or 18 Lances (22.2% chance of explode)? Throw in some Fab Claw Spyders (who synergize nicely as they can crap out scarabs to throw at any would be Melta shooters/repair hull points, and hide behind that LOS blocking behemoth) and call it a day. This needs it's own thread, but the more I think about the Mono, the more I like it in 6th.

Also, Disembark rules have made most Melta delivery much more problematic. Basically if your letting Melta get in Melta range of your Mono, your doing something wrong (cause your bog standard Warriors kill speeders now, etc).

Shadelkan wrote:You're spacing is awful. Here's a more legible version:

Also, this is the worst "primer" I've ever read. Get your ideas together and rewrite everything to explain your decisions. Calling something "meh" tells me all.

Exaggerate much? It's only double spacing between headers, not the end of the world. Perfectly legible.

I also said right at the very start it would be short and sweet. You don't need me to tell you that a turd is something smelly, brown and nasty do you?

TheAzathoth wrote:I actually liked it a lot, the only problem is that sometimes you just say "meh" and dont explain why the units are bad in your opinion, everything else is really good!

As above about the turd

Sigvatr wrote:Ehem, how did PE get nerfed? You are aware of the fact that it also works with shooting now AND is distributed to the entire squad (!) thus a DL in a squad of Wraiths will give all Wraiths PE too.

Sweeping isn't the main reason for CCBs anymore with the highly nerfed range either...

...and Prats got worse? Eh...they got AP 2 weapons now which are pretty rare in 6th, not to mention they can shoot before assaulting. They got a LOT better.

I second the vote for further elaboration on your part as of right now, I disagree with quite a few points.

Preferred enemy got nerfed a little bit at least from a combat point of view. I did a mathshammer exercise and a 10 man Assault Squad with Librarian vs a Tactical Squad ended up doing one less wound than the old 5th ed rules.

Sweeping is why you take a CCB. It's the only thing they really do, besides giving armour protection and mobility. They do have other benefits such as +1 to armour saves and fearless.

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

Sasori wrote:I have to disagree with a lot of these assertions.

Preferred enemy didn't really get "Nerfed" It got changed, it works on Shooting and Assault, and confers it to the unit. So, the Destroyer Lord got a lot better.

I don't see how you can say Triarch Praetorians got worse, when they clearly got significantly better. Hammer of Wrath, and one of the few Units with reliable AP2 makes these guys pretty good. They shoot from "Pretty good" to 'Very Good" With a Dlord conferring PE enemy to them, since it affects their shooting, and CC.

I also Disagree with your view on destroyers. Not only do they reroll 1's on hit and wounds, which considering they are hitting on 3's, and wounding most things on 3's makes a pretty big difference. Gauss can also strip hullpoints on a 6', they can function as both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. I think as time goes on, we'll be seeing more infantry, and less troops, and people will start taking these more.

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

Destroyers, any Necron with a gauss weapon can also strip hull points. Any Necron can also do anti infantry. I don't really see what Destroyers have got for them, except dedicated power armour slaying.

Exalted Pariah wrote:Wasn't PE in 5th re-roll misses? And now its shooting and CC, but you only re-roll on 1's.... Preatorians annoy me, how is the two-handed 'Rod of Covenant' Unwieldy but the two handed, Ap1 armorbane warscythe not? So preatorians, which are designed to kill deathstars, now swing at the same time as chain/powerfists? with only a 3+ save?!

The rod and warscythe are pretty bizzare, especially when the warscythe is ap1. Yes, Praetorians swing at the same time as deathstars, their ideal targets. That's not better, that's worse.

Lukus83 wrote:Have to agree with Sasori here. I think it's a little to early to start making comments when you haven't play tested out many of the potential combos. There is a lot that has been missed and some bad assertions.

D-lords became a lot better since they can confer their Preferred Enemy to other units.

Zahndrekh giving out Tank Hunters is now best utilized by large units of Warriors instead of Heavy Destroyers thanks to how the new rule works. Throw in the D-lord too and you have a brutal shooting unit that can stand up to challenges very well, does better in cc than it did in 5th and has better resilience thanks to the wound allocation rules.

Scarabs became the ultimate tarpits. Scarab farming went from ok to pretty damn good. Instead of buying cc specialists yourself or mobile shooting platforms you can rest assured Scarabs will tarpit whatever they hit. If farming the length of that tarpit is indefinite.

Tomb blades are not a shooty unit. They can hit targets of opportunity but really they are best served as denial units (or scoring) in that particular mission. Reserve them, then turbo boost around the back table edge until it's time to make a play for objectives. This hasn't changed much from 5th.

In 5th there was no contest between Gauss and Tesla...Tesla won hands down thanks to how glancing worked. Now with Hull points being stripped on glances there is a genuine dilemma on how to kit stuff out. Getting the balance right will be one of the things that Necron players will have to think very carefully about. Players will need to make sure they have enough Gauss before moving onto Tesla.

Just some thoughts.

I don't want to sort funny here, Lukus, but you say about me making assertions, but you make the assertion that I haven't tried all the combos...

Scarabs were a tarpit unit in 5th ed, so no change there. They've got better thanks to the assault range, but lost stealth from the swarm rule. All this I mentioned.

Tomb Blades are definitely a shooty unit They work as denial units exactly the same as they did in 5th edition (like any fast attack actually). There's not much point paying for a unit and then hiding it all game and then zooming them out. That's a waste of points.

I think tesla is awesome in destructor form, very cool. The rest is gauss for me, gauss double ups as anti tank and anti infantry, while tesla most the time is anti infantry only.

drakkenj wrote:

I'm gonna back Sasori here. There is way way too much "MEH" on your reviews of units. I mean, reading it basically everything is either terrible or middle of the road but a few units. Units that are much better in 6E include:

- Nemesor Zahndrekh - With some of the changes to USR his buffs are awesome now. Tank Hunter. Give Stealth to a Skimmer and then Jink. Yes, you can give your Monolith a 4+ cover save.
- Orikan the Diviner- Reserve roll love for your fliers and he's tough (even with the random roll)
- Varguard Obyron - Guy is a beater right now, and a 2+ save is much better
- Destroyer Lord - He gives PE to his whole unit, and with a 2+ he's strong, strong
- Stormteks - Haywire staff is a trainwreck when you use it on units
- Despairteks - That flamer template is awesome on snap shot attack
- CCB - It changed, but it is still good. The chariot rules make for all kinds of crazy stuff you can do.
- Deathmarks - You hit this one. They are very good.
- Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers - They are good for their niche. Are they competetive? Maybe in a gunline army. PE was a big buff for them. They only miss on 2s ..
- Nightscythe - Flyer power
- Doomscythe - Flyer power
- Canoptek Spyders - The fear is a bonus, they also can repair now. So if you take scarab farm w/ fabricator claw, on a 4+ you restore a hull point. Smash is super nice now.
- Canoptek Wraiths - They gained a free attack as Jump Infantry. Essentially buffed an already strong unit.
- Triarch Preatorians - Probably "most improved" unit. They went from totally worthless to now a contender for the Necrons strongest assault unit with a Dlord
- Doomsday Ark - SLIGHT improvement with the template changes. They are still not really worth taking over an Annhilation Barge or Doomscythe in the same slot.
- Monolith - Still fairly craptastic, but it gets Jink now, and I believe there was a change that allows it to actually send a full compliment of warriors through the door (20). Also benefits the most from spyder healing.
- Scarabs - Someone mentioned this but with the changes to Fearless and Beasts, they are still great at blowing up vehicles and tarpitting stuff you don't want to kill you.

There's other stuff I am sure I am missing. But needless to say when you are writing a "primer" you gotta get some of this stuff in there. "MEH" is just not a detailed response on why something is good or bad.

Pretty much mentioned everything you said. I said the same as you for Obyron, Despairtek, Stormteks, CCB, Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, Canoptek Spyders (they could repair vehicles anyway), Doomsday Ark, Monolith, Scarabs.

Don't want to sound funny, dude, but did you all of what I put?

Veriamp wrote:

Necron Lord is ok if you like paying big points for a single wound robot.

I would like to disagree with this if I may.The Necron Lord is awesome for making big scary hq's or any unit with a killy Sargent think twice in fear of a challenge where they get MSS then maybe a few smacks from a war scythe. That is just from my 6th experience though.

That's very true what you say and I cannot disagree with that. But, you still pay big points for a single wound robot. How much is a Necron Lord with warscythe, mindshackles and res orb? 90 points ish? That's pretty expensive for a single wound robot-dude. At least he has protect from a challenge (mindshackles), but it's not 100% thanks to good dice rolls.

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

See entry: Destoyer Lord. Also, they got plus one strength to go with that I1, so they are going to be wounding most things on a 2+. The VB/PC combo didn't lose anything at all, actually go much better as it's easier to hit vehicles now. Statistically you can split assault 6 VB/PC TPs against two vehicles and wreck them both, the loss of +1 attack not withstanding. That's a pretty obvious buff to both. And again, Destroyer Lord. Big part of this equation.

That's pretty expensive for a single wound robot-dude. At least he has protect from a challenge (mindshackles), but it's not 100% thanks to good dice rolls.

Well, the Res Orb cost should be justified by the unit he's in. Plus, Semp Weave should be a no brainer now. Then, even if your MSS fails, they are either striking before you and bouncing off your 2+, or striking after you and being dead by your warscythe. So really your paying 30 points for a squad buff, and 75 points for a character that kicks the crap out of any other character in the game, short of Demiklaive wielding Inkies. It doesn't matter if he only has one wound if no one can take that one wound away from him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Canoptek Wraiths

The changes to Night Fighting were effectively a nerf for Wraiths as well, as it now does absolutely nothing for them.

And I don't think they got any more survivable, as they can't Look Sir! each other, and you have to keep your WCs in back if you want them surviving when you get to assault.

Hammer was definitely a buff though. And the potential 24" assault range is interesting on a unit that ignores terrain.

I simply mean that I doubt anyone has thought about, created and used all the new possible combos that are now available in 6th. I know for a fact that I am only just now wrapping my head around several possibilities.

I know that this is a simple primer (your OP stated as much) but I can't help but feel that this really is a 5 minute job with little in the way of pertinent information. Asking anyone online to take your word as gospel without giving a clear reason why is just asking to be second guessed.

I guess I just expected more...Not a lot of detail, but perhaps a list of advantages / disadvantages and how they work differently in 6th.

For example if I was to write up Wraiths:

Wraiths

Still pretty good at what they do...hunter killing targets that your slower phalanx may find harder to reach. They received some buffs in the form of a potential longer assault range, Hammer of Wrath and no need to kit them out for Wound Allocation (thus keeping the unit slightly cheaper). Also bear in mind that they can now more reliably deal with armour thanks to the changes in how vehicles are hit. However Night Fight no longer benefits them since you need to be really, REALLY far away and in ruins to beat their 3+ invulnerable (i.e somewhere you don't want them).

That is how I would write it up (All this is of course IMHO).

mercer wrote:

Preferred enemy got nerfed a little bit at least from a combat point of view. I did a mathshammer exercise and a 10 man Assault Squad with Librarian vs a Tactical Squad ended up doing one less wound than the old 5th ed rules.

You're completely wrong here. We are talking about Necrons here, not tin cans. If you want to argue on PE nerfed overall, do so in another thread. Necrons got a HUGE buff by PE as now, it also works with ranged attacks. In 5th, PE on Destroyers did nothing. It now allows you to reroll 1s. Please explain how nothing -> rerolls is not an improvement. Furthermore, you ignored the point about PE being transferred to the rest of the squad. Warrior blobl with rerolls? Wraiths with rerolls? TP with rerolls?

This is a Necron thread so please focus on Necrons.

Sweeping is why you take a CCB. It's the only thing they really do, besides giving armour protection and mobility. They do have other benefits such as +1 to armour saves and fearless.

Sweeping got nerfed hard. With a potential sweeping range of 12'', it's no longer as much of a threat as it used to be. In melee, however, the CCB became pretty good. Hammer of Wrath, bonus protection (still AV 11 in melee) and those S7 AP 1 attacks make it pretty strong. Sweep is mainly used if you survive the first round of combat as it then allows you to sweep over the enemies you charged before. How will you sweep over anything with a range of 12''?

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

They now got S6 in melee, which means they mostly wound on 2+ and their attacks still ignore any armor - how many other power weapons still do that? They still strike at I1 - and get RP. vs. TEQ, they can't be swept anyway. Plus, they now get PE aka more rerolls. Taking down 2-3 enemies before the assault, then getting S5 AP- HoW attacks (aka wound on 3+ vs most enemies), then attacking with attacks that ignore enemy armor. Not to mention that they can still blow up light vehicles due to the +1 on vehicle damage chart and with S6...you know the deal.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

See entry: Destoyer Lord. Also, they got plus one strength to go with that I1, so they are going to be wounding most things on a 2+. The VB/PC combo didn't lose anything at all, actually go much better as it's easier to hit vehicles now. Statistically you can split assault 6 VB/PC TPs against two vehicles and wreck them both, the loss of +1 attack not withstanding. That's a pretty obvious buff to both. And again, Destroyer Lord. Big part of this equation.

That's pretty expensive for a single wound robot-dude. At least he has protect from a challenge (mindshackles), but it's not 100% thanks to good dice rolls.

Well, the Res Orb cost should be justified by the unit he's in. Plus, Semp Weave should be a no brainer now. Then, even if your MSS fails, they are either striking before you and bouncing off your 2+, or striking after you and being dead by your warscythe. So really your paying 30 points for a squad buff, and 75 points for a character that kicks the crap out of any other character in the game, short of Demiklaive wielding Inkies. It doesn't matter if he only has one wound if no one can take that one wound away from him.


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Canoptek Wraiths

The changes to Night Fighting were effectively a nerf for Wraiths as well, as it now does absolutely nothing for them.

And I don't think they got any more survivable, as they can't Look Sir! each other, and you have to keep your WCs in back if you want them surviving when you get to assault.

Hammer was definitely a buff though. And the potential 24" assault range is interesting on a unit that ignores terrain.

That's my point, you NEED the Destroyer Lord to make Praetorians good. That's another 120 points (I think?) on top of 200 points.

Void blade and particle caster?

Taking weave (which is a good item of wargear) is adding more points onto a single wound guy. I don't think the res orb is worth the points, just for that 16% increase chance of getting back up.

Night fighting doesn't help Wraiths any more, but that's only a single rule which may not happen. I don't think it's worth saying look at this rule, which makes this unit weaker. Night fighting itself has changed, which effects everything in the game. Everything has lost a benefit from it, and that's they can be shot at now, just units get cover saves instead.

Wraiths are definitely more survivable as is any other multi wound unit. I'll explain: enemy unit is in front and at the side of the Wraiths. Wraiths get shot by unit at the front and a single save is failed, a plain Wraith takes a wound. Unit on the left fires, and again the Wraiths fail a single save, which a plain Wraith takes. But, due to the position of this Wraiths on who was the closest, it means two Wraiths have a single wound each. In the old rules you need to remove models whole based on wargear. So Wraiths got more survivable .

Oh, whip coils, that's just placement. While technically they will be at the back, but you only need to place the plain Wraiths slightly forward more .

Lukus83 wrote:I simply mean that I doubt anyone has thought about, created and used all the new possible combos that are now available in 6th. I know for a fact that I am only just now wrapping my head around several possibilities.

I know that this is a simple primer (your OP stated as much) but I can't help but feel that this really is a 5 minute job with little in the way of pertinent information. Asking anyone online to take your word as gospel without giving a clear reason why is just asking to be second guessed.

I guess I just expected more...Not a lot of detail, but perhaps a list of advantages / disadvantages and how they work differently in 6th.

For example if I was to write up Wraiths:

Wraiths

Still pretty good at what they do...hunter killing targets that your slower phalanx may find harder to reach. They received some buffs in the form of a potential longer assault range, Hammer of Wrath and no need to kit them out for Wound Allocation (thus keeping the unit slightly cheaper). Also bear in mind that they can now more reliably deal with armour thanks to the changes in how vehicles are hit. However Night Fight no longer benefits them since you need to be really, REALLY far away and in ruins to beat their 3+ invulnerable (i.e somewhere you don't want them).

That is how I would write it up (All this is of course IMHO).

It took me a little more than 5 minutes . I am certainly not asking anyone to take my word for it. As always, it's a opinion

Your example with Wraiths shows that they haven't changed much, and still work as before. I mentioned about hammer of wrath and wound allocation. Assault distance is a no brainer and doesn't need to be mentioned, same with vehicles. Night fighting doesn't give benefit, well the same benefit it used to, to every unit in 40k, so again that goes without saying.

Don't get me wrong, what you have done is cool and appreciated. I just think some things go without saying, should be common knowledge about certain things i.e assault distance, night fighting and vehicles. Maybe some people forget these things? I don't know *shrug.

In you're words, this thread and your advice are turds.

I don't need to explain myself by your logic, it just is.

mercer wrote:

Pretty much mentioned everything you said. I said the same as you for Obyron, Despairtek, Stormteks, CCB, Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, Canoptek Spyders (they could repair vehicles anyway), Doomsday Ark, Monolith, Scarabs.

Don't want to sound funny, dude, but did you all of what I put?

It's not your assessment of units that is the real issue I had (if I had one) with the primer. It is more the wording you use to describe certain units. When I read your post I got the impression that even some of what you said above was fairly mediocre, when in reality it probably has a niche in some games or even many games. Some of the wording gave units that were amazing a kind of spin that made them seem like a relatively unexciting choice. When I read this primer through the eyes of someone who doesn't know much about Necrons, I was kind of like Wow, a lot of the Necron Codex has a lot of bad and mediocre units. But it doesn't. Most of the codex is very good and comptetive.

IMHO, a primer is not just about your opinions of a unit, but how your portray a unit to someone who has no idea of how to build or start play with Necrons. That was the only real thing that lept out at me about this. Just some feedback.

Honestly, you didn't put much work into this it seems... Immotekh became far better, as did d-lords.... /sigh

Shadelkan wrote:In you're words, this thread and your advice are turds.

I don't need to explain myself by your logic, it just is.

good one.

You misunderstand my logic. My logic is that I don't need to explain stuff which is already known. I do not know what you think, so you need to explain

Thanks for your valued and constructive feedback.

drakkenj wrote:

mercer wrote:

Pretty much mentioned everything you said. I said the same as you for Obyron, Despairtek, Stormteks, CCB, Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, Canoptek Spyders (they could repair vehicles anyway), Doomsday Ark, Monolith, Scarabs.

Don't want to sound funny, dude, but did you all of what I put?

It's not your assessment of units that is the real issue I had (if I had one) with the primer. It is more the wording you use to describe certain units. When I read your post I got the impression that even some of what you said above was fairly mediocre, when in reality it probably has a niche in some games or even many games. Some of the wording gave units that were amazing a kind of spin that made them seem like a relatively unexciting choice. When I read this primer through the eyes of someone who doesn't know much about Necrons, I was kind of like Wow, a lot of the Necron Codex has a lot of bad and mediocre units. But it doesn't. Most of the codex is very good and comptetive.

IMHO, a primer is not just about your opinions of a unit, but how your portray a unit to someone who has no idea of how to build or start play with Necrons. That was the only real thing that lept out at me about this. Just some feedback.

Well, some of things I said are mediocre is because they are mediocre. I am not sure what other way I can wrap it up and present it. Something just is what it is. If something is mediocre, then I am going to say it is. Do you want to give me some examples?

Oh, the Necron codex does have a fair few mediocre units. It's still a good codex with the powerful stuff is has and some of the builds and combos it can put out. IMO the Necron has 12 mediocre units out of a total of 29, that's almost 1/3 of the codex.



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Zid wrote:Honestly, you didn't put much work into this it seems... Immotekh became far better, as did d-lords.... /sigh

Perhaps I am missing something, how did Imotekh get better? Destroyer Lord did get better (I never said got worse or is a bad unit), I said preferred enemy got nerfed, which is did a little, but also got better at the same time. Swings and roundabouts.

I don't know if I'd count the fact that you can now grant PE to an entire unit as a "nerf"...

Sigvatr wrote:

mercer wrote:

Preferred enemy got nerfed a little bit at least from a combat point of view. I did a mathshammer exercise and a 10 man Assault Squad with Librarian vs a Tactical Squad ended up doing one less wound than the old 5th ed rules.

You're completely wrong here. We are talking about Necrons here, not tin cans. If you want to argue on PE nerfed overall, do so in another thread. Necrons got a HUGE buff by PE as now, it also works with ranged attacks. In 5th, PE on Destroyers did nothing. It now allows you to reroll 1s. Please explain how nothing -> rerolls is not an improvement. Furthermore, you ignored the point about PE being transferred to the rest of the squad. Warrior blobl with rerolls? Wraiths with rerolls? TP with rerolls?

This is a Necron thread so please focus on Necrons.

Sweeping is why you take a CCB. It's the only thing they really do, besides giving armour protection and mobility. They do have other benefits such as +1 to armour saves and fearless.

Sweeping got nerfed hard. With a potential sweeping range of 12'', it's no longer as much of a threat as it used to be. In melee, however, the CCB became pretty good. Hammer of Wrath, bonus protection (still AV 11 in melee) and those S7 AP 1 attacks make it pretty strong. Sweep is mainly used if you survive the first round of combat as it then allows you to sweep over the enemies you charged before. How will you sweep over anything with a range of 12''?

Yes, Praetorians got worse. I cannot see how they got better. Their shooting profile remains the same, so lets skip that. In combat they are no I1, so power fists and hammers etc will smash them up. Hammer of wrath is only S5 AP- for them, not mega awesome sauce, but certainly is better than what they got before - nothing!

They now got S6 in melee, which means they mostly wound on 2+ and their attacks still ignore any armor - how many other power weapons still do that? They still strike at I1 - and get RP. vs. TEQ, they can't be swept anyway. Plus, they now get PE aka more rerolls. Taking down 2-3 enemies before the assault, then getting S5 AP- HoW attacks (aka wound on 3+ vs most enemies), then attacking with attacks that ignore enemy armor. Not to mention that they can still blow up light vehicles due to the +1 on vehicle damage chart and with S6...you know the deal.

Woah, woah, a bit. You're telling me to argue about preferred enemy in another thread, but you get to say your piece? A bit ignorant don't you think?

Preferred enemy was a exercise for combat, which got slightly worse, only by a little bit.

Preferred enemy did do something for Destroyers in 5th edition, it let them re-roll to hit in close combat . I swear I mentioned about preferred enemy for Destroyers...oh, I did...

Sweeping didn't get nerfed hard at all. It got nerfed by moving less, while that is bad times, you can still do sweep with the same rolls as needed before. Btw I think it's pretty obvious how you sweep things over 12"

Preatorians don't get preferred enemy either, they get it given to them by a Destroyer Lord.

I've already mentioned about hammer of wrath, +1 strength and AP.


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skoffs wrote:I don't know if I'd count the fact that you can now grant PE to an entire unit as a "nerf"...

That's twisting my words there, Skoffs and is unfair and not right. I never said that granting preferred enemy to a unit is a nerf. Lets look at the whole picture instead. How about re-roll 1's to hit in close combat instead of re-roll everything? That's a nerf, but is compenstated by re-roll to wound too. Of course you get to re-roll for shooting attacks too, which is great.

VB/PC Pratorians with a 190 point d-lord are a fantastic unit, you can use the d-lord to soak up wounds with his 2+ save at the front of the unit, and you can split off before an assault to pop two vehicles, or you can stay together and soften up a unit with 5 s6 preferred enemy shots, then assault with 15 rending preferred enemy attacks (likely 2 rends) combined with the d-lords 4 s7 ap2 attacks, assuming he didn't issue a challenge. I'd take that unit against almost anything in the game.

CCB's are still amazing. They always get a jink save and with rear Armour 11, are pretty good in an assault. You won't sweep on turn 1, but after that, you're good to go. You can also sweep fliers.

I agree with you Anni-Barge analysis.

Anrakyr is kinda good in a barge now, as he gets 4 S8 Ap1 attacks on the charge.

125 point destroyer lord can give a unit of 20 warriors preferred enemy... Seems kinda good, even if gimmicky.

Oh ya... 10 scythe armed Lychguard in a Night Scythe with a 2+ save lord, a 2+/3++ overlord, re-roll tek... Kills anything in the game and is deployed basically anywhere on the table on the turn it comes in. Even with Hyperphase swords, they aren't bad, as you'd have a few scythes in the unit too. Pile a d-lord into that unit for some preferred enemy as well.

Also, no mention of tesseract labyrinth in relation to the challenge mechanic. A 2+ save footy lord with a Labyrinth? Even if you put it on an overlord... With the Labyrinth too, you get to pick any character in base, use it off a CCB.

Also, no mention of 10 warriors shooting a full 24" out of a ghost ark.

No mention of not being able to tar-pit units with a Triarch Stalker (units that can't hurt it can run away now).

Lastly, no mention of options for Psychic Defense. We either need a gloom prism spyder, or an ally with some form of defense.... Not even sure what'd work best at this point

mercer wrote:

Woah, woah, a bit. You're telling me to argue about preferred enemy in another thread, but you get to say your piece? A bit ignorant don't you think?

I'd appreciate you reading my posts completely. I asked you to be specific about Necrons when you make a primer about...Necrons. I don't give a rat's ass about whether PE got better or worse for any other army.

Preferred enemy did do something for Destroyers in 5th edition, it let them re-roll to hit in close combat

Yeah, let's try to keep rational and ignore stuff that's completely useless.

Sweeping didn't get nerfed hard at all. It got nerfed by moving less, while that is bad times, you can still do sweep with the same rolls as needed before. Btw I think it's pretty obvious how you sweep things over 12"

I don't get what you're trying to say here...

Preatorians don't get preferred enemy either, they get it given to them by a Destroyer Lord.

...which makes them a lot better. Thanks. I prefer looking at my entire codex, not just a minor tidbit.

Perhaps I am missing something, how did Imotekh get better?

Because he has all the Best in Slot tanking gear (heheh and IC's that can stand in front of your blob and eat bullets backed by a chrono are amazing now. Good luck getting anything past that 2+/3++ with a re-roll, and when the re-roll is burned I'm gone throw Warriors in front of me till next turn. And if I die I still have the Phylactery to fall back on.

Fair points on the Wraiths and positioning though, however I don't think that is exactly a buff over 5th, as now concentrated fire power from each direction is going to remove bases one by one (where in 5th you could force the first 3 wounds on different models, then kill your non wargear wraiths first by choice).

Still not following you on Imotek, dude. Could you explain more. Sorry, Imotek just appears to be the same as before really.

mercer wrote:Still not following you on Imotek, dude. Could you explain more. Sorry, Imotek just appears to be the same as before really.

Wound allocation shenanigans. Stick him at the front of a unit and his 2+/3++ save can protect a lot of models. Especially if you've got a chronometron for a re-roll.

loreweaver wrote:

mercer wrote:Still not following you on Imotek, dude. Could you explain more. Sorry, Imotek just appears to be the same as before really.

Wound allocation shenanigans. Stick him at the front of a unit and his 2+/3++ save can protect a lot of models. Especially if you've got a chronometron for a re-roll.

His lightnings got better too since they now reduce hull points before the enemy vehicles even get close.

Night Fight got..well...worse and better. To me, it seems rather "meh" as we only get +1 to cover saves most of the time.

It would be +2, well for the skimmers as they have jink, so will stack with that. So 4+ cover for Ghost Arks, Annihilation Barges, CCBs and Doomsday Arks.