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Hey all! Long time lurker first time poster, anyways, I've read a lot of different lists and decided I'd try one out and see what you guys thought.

The goal of this list is utilize what I feel to be strongest element of C:SM: efficient shooting. I've never been a huge fan of deathstars, as I feel that concentrating my army into 1 super unit that can be kited or otherwise avoided is potentially disasterous, especially given my typically lower than average saving rolls. As such I have focused this army to be entirely shooty across a wide range of depths. My goal was to be able to sit back and blast them, and yet also have a speedy contingent able to quickly get across the board.

HQ - 100 pts
Librarian with null/avanger - 100 pts

Troops - 598 pts
10 man tactical squad with lascannon, plasma gun and rhino. - 225 pts
10 man tactical squad with lascannon, plasma gun, and rhino - 225 pts
5 man scout sniper with ML and Telion - 148 pts

Elites - 435 pts
2 x Dreadnoughts with autocannons - 250 pts
5 man sternguard squad with 3 combi flamers and 2 combi meltas and rhino - 185 pts

Fast Attack - 345 pts
Attack bike squadron with to attack bukes with MMs - 100 pts
Land speeder with HB/TL - 90 pts
Stormtalon gunship with skyhammer missiles - 155 pts

HS - 185 pts
Predator with AC/HB - 85 pts
Thunderfire cannon -100 pts

Fortifications - 85 pts
Aegis defense line with icarus lascannon

Comes out to 1748 points. Tactics wise the centerpiece of this is the aegis defense line with icarus lascannon. If I put both my TFC and the scout squad with telion in there, the TFC gains a 3+ cover, the scouts all have a 2+ (4+ base + telion's stealth + the techmarine's added +1), which makes all the units tough to kill. Furthermore telion can man the lascannon to give it BS 6 precision!!! shots and take out any flyers/leaders anywhere on the board. The TFC also gives me great range and the scouts can pin anything that comes close. Given the probability of objectives i can put one smack dab in the middle of them and that will be a tough nugget to crack. Given all the autocannon shots + icarus + stormtalon i feel i have adequate AA protection, and I have a decent amount of AP 2 shots to take out tanks and termis. Finally between the HBs, autocannons, and TFC i should have decent horde coverage as well. The sternguard would likely be my reserve and sit midfield able to reinforce where needed while the 2 tac squads move up to claim objectives and block things with the rhinos and the bikes close behind to lurk and spring out to contest where needed.

My main concerns are the dreads and how they'll hold up in the new edition. The dakka pred im pretty confident will still be super efficent, but the dreads are potentially pricey. The fact that they will be at range helps them, as It seems to be that CC is where vehicles are most vulnerable now, so im still reasssonably confident in the dreads, but I could definitely see myself taking one for another dakka pred and either termi armour for my librarian or more scouts/sternguard.

Thoughts?

Alright I'll do it once. *bump*, no thoughts?

I suspect you will see less transports now. How about a 2nd cannon?

I think that the techmarine specifies that he boosts ruins, not just any piece of cover.

Overall a solid looking list.

ohhhh that would put a dent in that plan. Though that would just force the scouts to get camo cloaks to be back in 2+ land, and the TFC would just suffer with it's 4+, hmm.

yeaah, i dunno, 3 rhinos is a lot but then, they're still pretty efficent for their cost. It's just razorbacks i feel are dead, but yeah i might drop 1 from the tac squads. I think sternguard still need it for mobility's sake.

In terms of set ups:
melta, combimelta, ML for tactical squads is good as it makes them a nice tank hunting units, whilst their bolters can deal well enough with infantry. CC is not important as you can combat squad away and fire on the offending unit, though meltabombs are cheap upgrade.

Given two tactical squads like that I would set up the sternguard as 6(as they last longer than 5, whilst not being too many points, importantly this puts them on par with the other rhinos which is important in terms of spreading threats), with 2 heavy flamers and 4 combimeltas. In general infantry will die nicely enough with 4 bolters, whilst the flamers help a little whilst giving some cc protection, then meltas keeps tanks at bay. In a rhino they can shoot 2 templates from the roof, else they have melta shots if a tank is in range, if nothing is then sure use the bolters, but it makes the rhino a nice killer.

Telion will want his squad to have camo cloaks to give them the +2 cover save fun, a 5+ cover save whereever they happen to be. Also I would bring 8 or 9 snipers, with maybe heavy bolter or ML when 8. This gives Telion more wounds whilst meaning you could combat squad, and you probably need that many shots to guarantee the snipers getting a good model.

This now leaves less points for the rest of your army :(

Personally I would want a couple of AC/las preds as ranged antitank, then the 2 rifledreads. Then maybe a couple of stormravens to cover the antiflyer role.
I guess the main thing here is pairs of units work well, as the enemy may kill one unit, the other will stand up to the plate.

In general I think your list has the right idea and will do well.

About the thunderfire cannon - I am pretty sure that they got FAQ'd so they can bolster any terrain feature. Might be wrong though.....

Marshall Ragnar wrote:About the thunderfire cannon - I am pretty sure that they got FAQ'd so they can bolster any terrain feature. Might be wrong though.....

No, they just change the values in the example that illustrates the skill to 6th edition cover saves.

Yeah I have to re-figure things out based on the lack of the techmarine's bolster ability. I was using that in order to not have to buy them camo cloaks.

It's sort of a rule conundrum, the FAQ states that it would improve the ruin to be 3+ and the area terrain floor below 4+. Which sort of implies it can improve area terrain. Since defense lines are classified as barricades and walls, which is difficult/area terrain, you could almost classify it as a ruin of 1 floor and thus, improvable. From a fluff stand point it wouldn't make too much sense that a techmarine could improve a crumbling building to be better cover than a solid well built wall, so logically he SHOULD be able to upgrade it. You can almost reason your way into calling it a "ruin", for now I'll just buy the camo cloaks and work around it. It does allow me to give my marines a 3+ cover elsewhere though, and if necessary I could always split the aegis/snipers from the TFC to maximize the threat distribution.

Fletch: melta/combimelta/ML is the classic tac combination, im just not as worried about tanks anymore as I am air (hence the double dreadnoughts, twin-linked auto-cannon FTW). However it might be interesting to have one las/plas squad and one ML/meltagun squad, which would free up 15 points for camo. I wish I could get a 6th sternguard Im just not sure where i would free up 30 points (i think ima start with keeping the 3 flamers though, mostly to prevent charges), and auto/las predators, while awesome, are a touch less point efficient than tac lascannons. More sniper bodies would also be good, though, I worry that their 36 inch range will prevent them from doing much except fire the icarus, so I worry they may actually sorta sit there and be a waste of points. Ill have to experiment to see what the right number is.

Are C:SM allowed stormravens? I thought They were BA and GK only. I definitely have the stormtalon though, I think he will be a star taking out flyers, especially with the missiles.

One thing that might work better if flyers dont end up being too prevalent is a vindicator instead of a dreadnought, as they are a HUGE threat to any death-star army and represents yet another must kill for them. Now that glancing doesn't shake it has a good chance of getting at least one shot off, and it can move faster to get in range more quickly whilst making use of first turn night fighting (at least, half the time).

The new list taking in account camo cloaks, also I realized I underrepresented the snipers in the list below. It's actually 5 snipers + telion. So 4 rifles, 1 ML and telion with his stalker pattern.

HQ - 100 pts
Librarian with null/avanger - 100 pts

Troops - 598 pts
10 man tactical squad with lascannon, plasma gun and rhino. - 225 pts
10 man tactical squad with ML, meltagun, and rhino - 210 pts
6 man scout sniper with ML, camocloaks, and telion - 163 pts

Elites - 435 pts / 310 pts
1 x Dreadnoughts with autocannons - 125 pts
1 x Dreadnought with autocannons - 125 (OR see below)
5 man sternguard squad with 3 combi flamers and 2 combi meltas and rhino - 185 pts

Fast Attack - 345 pts
Attack bike squadron with 2 attack bikes with MMs - 100 pts
Land speeder with HB/TL - 90 pts
Stormtalon gunship with skyhammer missiles - 155 pts

HS - 185 pts / 310 pts
Predator with AC/HB - 85 pts
Thunderfire cannon -100 pts
If no 2nd dread: Vindicator with stormbolter - 125 points

Fortifications - 85 pts
Aegis defense line with icarus lascannon