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First, some rules.

Jink, gives moving skimmers a 5+ cover save.

Nemesor, can grant any unit stealth.

Night Fighting, grants any unit in the 24 to 36" shrouding.

All these rules stack (check the book), soooooo, 5+ (-1) (-2) = 2+ cover save

Good luck taking that out.

Now, some of this is dependent on Night Fighting, which many armies (particularly DEldar with their dark lances) can take away. Still, 4+ cover save AV 14 hulls are not to shabby either.

What about Melta? Well, a couple things:

A.) Melta is getting thinner in the meta as we speak.
B.) Melta delivery systems are much more problematic now. For vets to get into Melta range they have to start off 18" away from you on their turn. Why did you move your Mono 18" from melta vets? You deserve to lose it .
C.) MM can be potentially problematic, but certainly isn't anything you can't plan for. Throw some gak down in your 12" bubble (Warriors, Scarabs, what ever). Or just kill the MM. Land speeders die quickly. Bikes are easy to tar pit/bubble wrap against. No one takes Sisters .

So what plays nicely with our moving nigh impossible to kill LOS blocking behemoth?
Spyders are an obvious choice as they:
A.) Repair any hull points that happen to fall off
B.) Can hide behind the Mono, and basically not die
C.) Can gak out scarabs, who can be thrown at anything that might threaten your mono (Melta again).

WW C'Tan!
Yeah you angry earthers! You finally have a legitimate way of keeping your Star God Shard alive, not too mention getting him into the thick of things by turn 3/4 or so! And Lord of Fire or Sentient Singularity both could be ways of keeping melta at bay.

Anything that kills MM (Heavy D's, lots of gauss, what ever).

Oh, and of course, Nemesor. Because, again, 4+ cover save Mono's don't die too much.

Anyway, just wanted to see if people are seeing the Mono through 6th editions eyes yet.

Oh, and your Particle Whip kills vehicles now, so that's good. And you get to snap fire your Arcs at the same time. Shoot fliers, might as well right?

now that you have made those points, i am tempted to try and field the Monolith again.

Mymain issue with is the points cost. anni Barges are much more cost effcetive, especially in smaller games.

I probably wouldn't look at sending in a 'lith until around the 2000 point mark.

Which one gives you the 2+ to cover, Stealth or Shrouding?



EDIT:

just knocked out a quik 2k list based on your info above...

I'm not sure how the tactics work yet, but I'd like to try a 2 or 3 Monolith list.

Not sure what to back it up with yet, or even how to move it around the board :-p

With Zandrekh and Obyron, you could do some of the teleport shenanigans we did before the book came out. Bunch up a unit using Obyron in an assault, then smack'em with the particle whip?

2 Monoliths, 2-3 spyders (fabricator, gloom prism), zandy, oby, big warrior units, guass immortals... Scarabs...???


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Might as well take deathmarks with a despair-tek while you're at it.

That is pretty awesome, and even against deldar they have to hit, pen on a 4+ and you can jink on a 5+ or 4+, so quite survivable. All that gauss is also pretty awesome.

Just watch out for drop pod or DOA units dropping a melta or 2 in.

So you have a 2+ cover over 24" away while Nightfighting is up. It drops to 4+ up close. unless you're taking Railgun fire it won't matter all that much.

Units with Melta tend to pack it in multiples so you having a 4+ cover is just a minor setback.


And it only applies to one unit. Not a huge deal really.

the problem is really combat. Anything with haywire grenades will shredd it. Sure you can try and bubble wrap it, but with the new shooting rules taking away the closest models you can shoot through the wrap.

Yeah, the main issue with the monolith is stiff competition between the Annhilation Barge and the Spyder. I think it is becoming more and more apparent that the annihiliation barge is grossly underpriced for how good it is. I mean, at 90 pts, you still get those cover benefits you were describing for the monolith. Plus the barge is faster.
The really cool stuff is that at 2k you lose that restriction.
Hrmm, in 2k, you might be able to run 3 A. Barges and 2 Monoliths to great effect.

Zahndrek
CCB Lord
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors / Ark
Scarabs
Scarabs
Ann Barge
Ann Barge
Ann Barge
Monolith
Monolith

Simple and I bet pretty brutal. Use Drek to give the scarabs furious charge here and there, probably usually giving tank hunters to barges or if there aren't juicy tanks to shoot, stealth to the monoliths. Use the liths as moblie-nearly-unkillible-los-blockers and to teleport the warriors to scoring position. Sprinkle in some Royal Courts and you are winning some games.
Or you could switch up two of the warrior squads to min-str Immortals, then add 2 Night Scythes.

I like Necrons in 6th.

Fair points on the Anni Barge, however I think Night Scythe is a much better platform for Tesla Destructors now. Infinitely faster, harder to kill, sky-fire, and can poop out Warriors where ever you need them. Plus Scythes and Monos play nice together. Plus, with getting anti-tank everywhere, Anni's go from a need to a want if it suits your style in most lists in my opinion.

the problem is really combat. Anything with haywire grenades will shredd it. Sure you can try and bubble wrap it, but with the new shooting rules taking away the closest models you can shoot through the wrap.

Good point, but only really one unit from one army you have to deal with here. Use your HD's/Telsa Destructors/Scarabs/Gauss to pop the wyches ride 24+" away, should be pretty sufficient. Against any other combat your AV 14, so anything less then 9 Strength your basically laughing at.

Units with Melta tend to pack it in multiples so you having a 4+ cover is just a minor setback.

First, I just don't see how units taking multiple melta's are going to get into melta range of you unless your doing something tragically wrong. That's what the Scarabs (or anything else that can reliably drop their delivery system) are there to protect against. Even still, say 4 BS 4 melta's in range, they have an incredibly low chance of knocking off all 4 HPs, and 4(2/3)(21/36)(1/2)(1/2)=38.9% chance of explode. So if you some how get within 6", you have less then a coin flip of success, and then your melta team gets teleported to Delaware/eaten by Spyders/Scarabs.

Melta just isn't the bain of Mono's it once was, disembarking rules and Jink have substantially mitigated this threat.

Multi-Melta's on the other hand have to be respected, but you're unlikely to see more the a few of those in any list.

And it only applies to one unit. Not a huge deal really.

Well, all your Monos get a 5+, or a 4+ at 12-24" NF range, or a 3+ at 24-36" range. Nemesor just makes one of them a little extra special.

I wouldn't be using vehicles at all. Warrior spam is much better.

DragonRider wrote:I wouldn't be using vehicles at all. Warrior spam is much better.

Fair enough, I think Metal Tide is pretty strong in this edition (my primary army has 2XNight Scythes and the rest are all foot sloggers/Jump Infantry, so I'm with you here).

However, this thread is for those considering Mono's .

DragonRider wrote:I wouldn't be using vehicles at all. Warrior spam is much better.

I'll fight that list any day. Warriors aren't all that survivable on foot with a 4+ Armour save with cover being 5+ and focus fire rules. All 'corn vehicles are more survivable than they used to be with jink saves. I only ever suffered 2 glances or so on the AV13 beasts when I ran two surfboard lords, 2 Stalkers, two ghost arks, and assorted other things.

Gauss? 100 warriors and 10 destroyers will kill almost anything in the game. Add in Imotekh and you still have 75 points to spare.

DragonRider wrote:Gauss? 100 warriors and 10 destroyers will kill almost anything in the game. Add in Imotekh and you still have 75 points to spare.

It's an interesting idea, although I would be inclined to mix up some Res Orb Lords and Ghost Arcs to really magnify what a nightmare it would be to cut through all those bodies.

DragonRider wrote:Gauss? 100 warriors and 10 destroyers will kill almost anything in the game. Add in Imotekh and you still have 75 points to spare.

1300, 400, 225... Thats a 2000 point army full of S4 and some S5 shooting. What does it do against T7 things? Or plague marines, or Nob Bikers?... Sure, it'll fry vehicles, but I don't think that meta's in play anymore.

That list faces a 2nd turn assault, and doesn't like what happens. 40 over watch shots only get you 7 hits or so too, which is only 1 dead MEQ. Or a surfboard lord that goes flat out. Are you going to shoot your whole army at it to take it's effective 5 hull points off? Let's math that out(works the same as the 4+ monolith, coincidentally). It'll take 90 guass shots to take down a surfboard. 72 for the 4+ monolith described in this thread. No mention of how you deal with a single unit of terminators....

Sorry, I don't think that list works, or is all that scary to face. Not to mention that it's 2000 points and doesn't take advantage of double org spam ( like a six monolith, Zandrek, 4x10 immortals list ). Keep in mind those monolith pie plates disallow Armour saves from your things, and none of your shooting stops any vehicle from shooting)

You can pretty much field ghost arks to do what your doing with the monolith. You give up one AV and the large los blocking arc for a more mobile platform that plays really well with warriors, doesn't take up a foc slot, and is cheaper.

Also angry earth is dead. The whole point was to get around armor saves and you can take those on dangerous terrain wounds now. The only reason to take quaketeks now is prevent charges or to make sure successful ones strike last ( doesn't work against jump infantry that use their packs on the charge).

Tarrasq wrote:You can pretty much field ghost arks to do what your doing with the monolith. You give up one AV and the large los blocking arc for a more mobile platform that plays really well with warriors, doesn't take up a foc slot, and is cheaper.

Also angry earth is dead. The whole point was to get around armor saves and you can take those on dangerous terrain wounds now. The only reason to take quaketeks now is prevent charges or to make sure successful ones strike last ( doesn't work against jump infantry that use their packs on the charge).

Ghost Arcs don't block LOS, and they are 1 AV less...until they suffer any penetrating hit, then they are dead. AV 14 all around>>>>>AV13 on front and sides till taking one penetrating hit. Oh yeah, and open topped. Really, the survivability comparison isn't even in the same ball park.

Plus, I get an S 8 AP 3 Orddy with my Mono, and teleporter to Deleware/army re-depolyment thingy.

Good point on Angry Earth though, it still could be a bit of pain for vehicles.

However, I still feel if you want to run a C'Tan (or 2), Mono is his favorite friend.

ShadarLogoth wrote:teleporter to Deleware

Let me know where all those models are landing, cuz I'm headed to Delaware this weekend

ShadarLogoth wrote:No one takes Sisters .

I take Sisters as my main, and I own Sisters, GK, Necrons and SM. With the allies rules, the Sisters can now fill in their codex with the blank spots that were taken out, and with the buff to AP1 and the ability to take 6 heavy support at 2k points, I believe the Exorcists to be one of the best Heavy Support choices in the game at the moment. However, thanks for sharing this info, I can now exploit my monolith.

Kreedos wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:No one takes Sisters .

I take Sisters as my main, and I own Sisters, GK, Necrons and SM. With the allies rules, the Sisters can now fill in their codex with the blank spots that were taken out, and with the buff to AP1 and the ability to take 6 heavy support at 2k points, I believe the Exorcists to be one of the best Heavy Support choices in the game at the moment. However, thanks for sharing this info, I can now exploit my monolith.

Yeah no doubt, I was just being absurd. I think sisters are a lot better then their press, and if they had an updated model line and a physical codex would be a lot more popular.

I think the monolith is probably still a slightly poor choice and cover save abuse can be done by the othere skimmers too (better as they can flat out for bas 4+). Really the ability to improve our new found jink saves with Night fighting is a Big Buff to AV13 spam lists. ~10 AV 13 skimmers with 4+/3+ cover as they advance wile shooting is nasty.

Fair points on the Anni Barge, however I think Night Scythe is a much better platform for Tesla Destructors now. Infinitely faster, harder to kill, sky-fire, and can poop out Warriors where ever you need them. Plus Scythes and Monos play nice together. Plus, with getting anti-tank everywhere, Anni's go from a need to a want if it suits your style in most lists in my opinion.

A barges are amazing for their points and Night Scythes dont really compare as T.Destructor platforms. The barge will start shooting turn 1 and may keep shooting all game, the Scythe will start shooting turn 2 (at best) and only get ~3 turns of shooting due to the difficulty of manouvering a flyer.
Also Gauss does not remove the need for anti-tank, its great against a land raider but an inefficient way to remove a Rhino, we still need anti light transport units.

Am I the only one that lol'd, sure you can have your 2+ cover, whats the effective range on a monolith 24 inch? How far away do you have to be for 2+ cover...more than 24. Its all you Happy floating.


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Tarrasq wrote:You can pretty much field ghost arks to do what your doing with the monolith. You give up one AV and the large los blocking arc for a more mobile platform that plays really well with warriors, doesn't take up a foc slot, and is cheaper.

Also angry earth is dead. The whole point was to get around armor saves and you can take those on dangerous terrain wounds now. The only reason to take quaketeks now is prevent charges or to make sure successful ones strike last ( doesn't work against jump infantry that use their packs on the charge).

Actually this doesn't work, quake is in movement phase only, when they assault they are free and clear, and yes angry earth is dead, no reason to take a ctan anymore, not that he was particularly great before.

I'm still a fan of the snooty C'Tan. Pyreshards and Moulder of Worlds is a fun little model. Not competitive, but fun.

I placed 3rd in a 5th Ed tourney with a Monolith with a Lord of Fire C'Tan hiding behind it. I destroyed a melta gun guy in the 2nd round.

loreweaver wrote:

DragonRider wrote:Gauss? 100 warriors and 10 destroyers will kill almost anything in the game. Add in Imotekh and you still have 75 points to spare.

1300, 400, 225... Thats a 2000 point army full of S4 and some S5 shooting. What does it do against T7 things? Or plague marines, or Nob Bikers?... Sure, it'll fry vehicles, but I don't think that meta's in play anymore.

That list faces a 2nd turn assault, and doesn't like what happens. 40 over watch shots only get you 7 hits or so too, which is only 1 dead MEQ. Or a surfboard lord that goes flat out. Are you going to shoot your whole army at it to take it's effective 5 hull points off? Let's math that out(works the same as the 4+ monolith, coincidentally). It'll take 90 guass shots to take down a surfboard. 72 for the 4+ monolith described in this thread. No mention of how you deal with a single unit of terminators....

Sorry, I don't think that list works, or is all that scary to face. Not to mention that it's 2000 points and doesn't take advantage of double org spam ( like a six monolith, Zandrek, 4x10 immortals list ). Keep in mind those monolith pie plates disallow Armour saves from your things, and none of your shooting stops any vehicle from shooting)

Fair enough. Six Monoliths? Now that's something I have to try.

It's not just the monolith. Both arks and both barges have a 5+ jink cover save that can be a 3+ or 4+ with night fighting. An average of a 4+ cover save for every vehicle in the army is a pretty big deal.

tgf wrote:Am I the only one that lol'd, sure you can have your 2+ cover, whats the effective range on a monolith 24 inch? How far away do you have to be for 2+ cover...more than 24. Its all you Happy floating.

If your 23.9" away from your closest target (which you will be dropping an Ord Blast on, among other things), you are >24" away from everything else.

It's not just the monolith. Both arks and both barges have a 5+ jink cover save that can be a 3+ or 4+ with night fighting. An average of a 4+ cover save for every vehicle in the army is a pretty big deal.

Exactly. Combine it all together, and you present a real nightmare for anyone to amass enough firepower to get through all the saves/AV.

Also Gauss does not remove the need for anti-tank, its great against a land raider but an inefficient way to remove a Rhino, we still need anti light transport units.

I disagree with this. It's not inefficient when it's free, resilient, and scoring, and an ABarge is none of these things (it's semi resilient, but it's easier to shut down an ABarge then say a 20 blob of warriors). You need about 27 gauss shots/vehicle. Add in Stormteks/Lanceteks, and you can easily pull 4 or 5 vehicles/turn of anti-tank out of your troops alone. That puts you well on your way to more then sufficient anti-tank. Triarch Praetorians/Wraiths/Flayed Ones/Scarabs/Normal Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers all just massacre vehicles now as well. Or Doom Scythes. Or Doomsday Arcs. Or CCBs. I know Stellie has been posting 15 to 18 vehicle lists, but the truth is those lists are un-competitive crap in 6th. Outside of Fliers you are rarely going to see more then 8 or 9 vehicles in a list anymore. That means if you can get your upper propensity to around 6 or 7 per turn, you are right where you need to be. And you quite simply don't need ABarges to accomplish this goal.

Now, you may certainly use them in this vein, but you don't need them.


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loreweaver wrote:I'm still a fan of the snooty C'Tan. Pyreshards and Moulder of Worlds is a fun little model. Not competitive, but fun.

I placed 3rd in a 5th Ed tourney with a Monolith with a Lord of Fire C'Tan hiding behind it. I destroyed a melta gun guy in the 2nd round.

I saw a double C'Tan 9 Spyder army do quite well in 5th. With the MC buffs and the right list, I think there is certainly the potential to make a very respectable MC spam list in 6th, and a mobile LOS blocking wall may play a roll in this. Let's keep in mind that the only army out there that real scares Necron MC's is DEldar, and they aren't exactly tearing up the tournie scene right now (I think their codex is just fine, but for what ever reason their attendance percentages have dropped off). GK's don't really scare Necron MC's as they either have A.) Eternal Warrior or B.) Gloom Prisms.

Angry Earth might be dead, but WW in an MC spam list may have a roll, as it makes Horde based and parking lot based armies movement problematic, particular paired with Orikan. The first turn of limited to no movement may be all you need to spread you MC's into position. But then again it might not do anything of note. I think it's way to early to take it off the table based on theory alone however.