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Hey all. I have a Doubt about first turn charges and outflankers... I hear everyone saying that 1st turn assaults and assaults right after outflanking are now disallowed... I searched in my BRB and I didn't find any mention of those rules... I only found that infiltrators and scouts cannot assault in the first turn if they use the deployment special rules... no mentions on 1st round charges and outflankers... Please help, could you clarify me the thing? What am I missing?
Thx a lot in advance.

Page 125, under Reserves.

First turn charges if you can manage it without scouting, infiltrating etc are allowed.

Thx a lot nosferatu... now it'a all more clear!!!!

That being said, It is intresting to know what you are using to assault 1st turn.

I cant think of anything any longer, as every deployment requires you to be more than 24" away, and fleet no longer grants you extra movement. Everything i've seen allows a maximum of 24" in one turn

The thing arised in my last game... I had a squad of raptors armed with melta bombs. I was going second and I wanted to charge a LR that previously moved toward me with its nasty load of hammernators...

P.s. 1st turn for me still means both the players turns... but I see perhaps now it's referred to a single player turn

If your opponent infiltrates out of LoS (so just over 12") and you go first, you could have a first turn assault.

But only with a unit that you didn't infiltrate with. Which is kind of weird.

True enough. Even in LOS is 18" away, so within charge range of beasts, etc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I cant think of anything any longer, as every deployment requires you to be more than 24" away, and fleet no longer grants you extra movement. Everything i've seen allows a maximum of 24" in one turn

Storm Boyz can move more than 24" in one turn without scouting/infiltrating/etc. 12"+6" jump+12" assault.

Also, anything getting out of a spin-exploiting deployed sideways Raider. 12" move+12" assault+spin.

Good thinking, i should have known there would be some

Trukk with Red Paint Job?
6+1 move, 6 disembark, 6 assault = 25"

EDIT:
I meant to say 2D6 assault!

(pssst) 6+1+6+6 = 19

just saying

Maelstrom808 wrote: (pssst) 6+1+6+6 = 19

just saying

Ouch that hurts ....

Then again it should be 6+1+6+2d6 for 25. Someone forgot. The assault of 2d6.

Ooops.
Yeah I meant 6+1+6+2D6 can give 25.
Old habits from 5th!

Lash sorcerer w/ jumppack and Raptors.

12 inch move, 2d6 pull, 2d6 charge. usually 26 inches, but possibly 36 inches.

Your Infiltrators can assault on *your* first turn, if you go second.

Infiltrators set up 'more than' 12" or 'more than' 18". The 'more' part is important.

Theoretically any Beast or Jump Infantry can get into assault first turn if you place bases perfectly at 24" apart, move 12" and assault 2d6" for 12". That's.... really hard to do though

Coredump stated it above, something I realized yesterday:

In the beginning of the rules it reiterates from 5th that any reference to 'turn' means 'player turn' unless it explicitly says 'game turn'. The infiltrators rule says that they may not assault on the first 'turn'. therefore if you go 2nd, you can infiltrate a unit and if the enemy on their turn ignore it, or are unable to get rid of it, you can make a 1st turn assault, on the 2nd player turn of the game.

note that stealing initiative would disallow your infiltrators from assaulting, as you'd have the first player turn. Kinda redundant to say but i felt like pointing it out because it's a big deal. Assaulting units are going to have to find ways to get into CC in 6th every way they can.

jms40k wrote:Theoretically any Beast or Jump Infantry can get into assault first turn if you place bases perfectly at 24" apart, move 12" and assault 2d6" for 12". That's.... really hard to do though

MORE Than 24" away

nosferatu1001 wrote:

jms40k wrote:Theoretically any Beast or Jump Infantry can get into assault first turn if you place bases perfectly at 24" apart, move 12" and assault 2d6" for 12". That's.... really hard to do though

MORE Than 24" away

I dunno... page 119 shows that the no mans land is exactly 24", so if both players deploy exactly on the line you could make a 24" move and make contact.

If you deploy ON the line, you are deploying within the no-mans land as well as deploying in your deployment zone - whih is something you're not allowed to do.

nosferatu1001 wrote:If you deploy ON the line, you are deploying within the no-mans land as well as deploying in your deployment zone - whih is something you're not allowed to do.

48" wide table, I have a 12" deployment zone I'm allowed to deploy in. I deploy at 12". At 12.000000000000000000000000000001" No Mans land starts. It continues for 23.9999999999999999999999999999". My opponent deploys at 12" directly across from me (his deployment zone).
There is a 24" gap between our two units. I move 12" and roll a 12" for assault. I can make contact.

Except, as you pointed out, no mans land is defined as (for example) as 2 12" measurements, totalling 24"

So while you in theory have 12" deployment, you cannto deploy on the line, as this puts you ALSO in no mans land.

24+12+12=48, so the 12.00000000000repeating inch line is your deployment zone and not in no mans land.

The zero width single dimension line separating the no mans lands is exactly 12" in.

If you are 12" in, you are ON this line, and within no mans land. You are also within your 12" deployment zone, however this is not relevant as you are also in the no mans land, which isnt allowed.

Agreed that 12+12+12+12 is 48". However this isnt the issue - the issue is that no mans land is an exclusive area you cannot occupy, so as soon as you use exactly 12" you are in no mans land. You can, at most, use 11.9...9" of your deployment zone

It's pretty obvious from the reserves/infiltrator rules as well as the new deployment zones all having 24" no man's lands GW wanted to ensure nobody would get a turn 1 charge with the enemy having ZERO chance to respond.

Without rerolls dont depend on charging more than 5". Even though a 7 comes up most often you only have a ~58% chance of rolling 7 or more.

tetrisphreak wrote:Coredump stated it above, something I realized yesterday:

In the beginning of the rules it reiterates from 5th that any reference to 'turn' means 'player turn' unless it explicitly says 'game turn'. The infiltrators rule says that they may not assault on the first 'turn'. therefore if you go 2nd, you can infiltrate a unit and if the enemy on their turn ignore it, or are unable to get rid of it, you can make a 1st turn assault, on the 2nd player turn of the game.

note that stealing initiative would disallow your infiltrators from assaulting, as you'd have the first player turn. Kinda redundant to say but i felt like pointing it out because it's a big deal. Assaulting units are going to have to find ways to get into CC in 6th every way they can.

I suspect way of reading the rule will get faqed in the brb FAQ. I can't argue to much with that read, beyond it looks like it meant each players first turn. Probably should have used the word Game Turn in this case,but till it get's faqed it is fair play.

Space marine vangard in drop pod can assult first turnif they are in a pod that drops first turn.

Gloomfang wrote:Space marine vangard in drop pod can assult first turnif they are in a pod that drops first turn.

I think you can only use the Vanguard Heroic Intervention if you're using jump packs, which prevents you from being embarked on a pod. It's certainly that way for Codex Blood Angels.