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I remember there was an unofficial rule for this, something like multiplying the cost of the 40k unit by seven or something.. can't remember exactly. If anyone knows then it'd be really useful to me.

I've heard that, but wasn't it based off the 2nd edition 40k rules?

Balance wrote:I've heard that, but wasn't it based off the 2nd edition 40k rules?

Maybe so, but I imagine it'd still be reasonable. Especially if it was, say, vanilla marines against necrons, except using necromunda rules.

I have seen something like this before, but yes it can happen

I don't suppose you know what the rule was?

I was just discussing this with a friend of mine the other day. We decided the way to do it was to compare the cost of a ganger with lasgun to that of a standard imperial guardsman (from 2nd ed codex). The points are 7 or 8 times 40k, I can't remember the exact figure. You will probably need the 2nd edition codexes though as points were a lot different then, and the current ones don't have all the rules you would need (movement stat, weapon to hit modifiers, save modifiers, etc). We were trying to work out how many genestealers would be a fair fight against a necromunda gang.

ray648 wrote:I was just discussing this with a friend of mine the other day. We decided the way to do it was to compare the cost of a ganger with lasgun to that of a standard imperial guardsman (from 2nd ed codex). The points are 7 or 8 times 40k, I can't remember the exact figure. You will probably need the 2nd edition codexes though as points were a lot different then, and the current ones don't have all the rules you would need (movement stat, weapon to hit modifiers, save modifiers, etc). We were trying to work out how many genestealers would be a fair fight against a necromunda gang.

True, but if I were to just do a game using 40k units but with necromunda rules it would remove the issue of balancing.

That's what I have been thinking of doing. Basically a small game of 40K with the following modifications from Necromunda:

-remove squad coherency rules to field "squads" more like gangs can me moved.
-Add bottle test mechanics for LD tests
-add the mechanics that cover models who lost their last wound being able to get back up with a flesh wound.

I'm just not sure which Edition of rules to pull from. 2nd edition is the best match, other than the math required to get individual trooper costs, which I see isn't really all that bad once I cracked open my old copy of Codex: Ultramarines (a normal marine would be 30pts plus any additional weapon options they can take, for example). Now I just need to get on Amazon/Ebay and track down the three main books that came with the 2nd Ed. box set and some of the Codexes I don't have but can field forces with.


Other than the three above changes, is there anything major from Necromunda that isn't in 40K? It's been ages since my last Necromunda game.

Second edition is indeed the one to which to look; Necromunda's weapons (like 95% of its rules) are lifted directly from there.

So far as working out prices/costs goes, the maths doesn't turn out to be straightforward. By way of example, here are a few crudely-tabulated comparisons between costs in Necromunda and those in the "Black Book" army lists from its contemporary edition of 40k. (Note that 2nd edition 40k differentiated heavy weapon costs between armies; marines paid 1.5x the standard cost for heavy and special weapons, I have here used the "basic" costs from the guard list.)

Hand Weapons
Weapon....Necromunda................40k........................Multiplier
Sword..................10...............................1................................x10
Chainsword........25...............................2..............................x12.5
Club......................10...............................1................................x10
Chain...................10................................1................................x10
Knife (1st free)....5................................1.................................x5
2-H Sword/Club 15..........................N/A (2)*.........................x7.5
Power Axe.........35+3d6(45).................7..................................x5
Power Fist........85+3d6(95)................10..............................x9.5
Power Maul......35+3d6(45)..................6...............................x7.5
Power Sword....40+3d6(50).................6...............................x8.3 recurring

*Not available in 40k, presumably 2, as were 2-H weapons in WHFB 4E.

A standard ganger (M4, WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1, W1, Ld7) cost 50 in Necromunda, and a standard guardsman (same profile) 5 in 40k, giving a nice x10 multiplier.

A Necromunda Juve (-1 to WS, BS, Ld) cost 25. The same negatives were applied in WHFB 4E to "levy" quality troops, who cost 1/2 as much as standard, so a human levy in 40k could be presumed to have been worth 2.5 points, meaning the same modifier x10 multiplier would apply. Heavies and Leaders in Necromunda lacked precise 40k equivalents (a 120 credit Necromunda leader had the same profile as a 15 point 40k guard lieutenant, but also a leadership bubble like a general), so you'd need to fudge those points costs.

Heavy Weapons
Weapon..................Necromunda......40k....Multiplier
Autocannon.......................300...............16.......x18.75
Heavy Stubber..................120................10........x12
Heavy Bolter......................180................10........x18
Heavy Plasma Gun..........285................26........x11 (rounded)
Lascannon........................400................30.........x13.3 recurring
Missile Launcher.............335................30.........x11.16 recurring
(+frag & krak)

As you can see, the multipliers employed to carry 40k weapons into Necromunda were not applied particularly systematically. It's worth bringing up another oft-observed flaw in Necromunda's cost-balancing, namely that a lascannon at 400 credits was a colossal waste of money in a situation in which one rarely (if ever) encountered vehicles or anybody with a T above 4, whilst the cheap and reliable anti-personnel firepower of the heavy stubber made it an obvious choice for every gang.

It's worth bringing up another oft-observed flaw in Necromunda's cost-balancing, namely that a lascannon at 400 credits was a colossal waste of money in a situation in which one rarely (if ever) encountered vehicles or anybody with a T above 4, whilst the cheap and reliable anti-personnel firepower of the heavy stubber made it an obvious choice for every gang.

That's a very good point.

I still think the best way to get a Necromunda feel but with the troops you see common to 40K battlefields is to take the 2nd edition codex you want, break down the points per figure from the cost-per-squad, remove squad coherency rules, and then handle everything else with Necromunda rules. You can only take weapons options available to each troop type, at the cost in the armory.

You should even be able to keep the balance of a force using the actual codex % breakdown along with the percentage of each troop able to take special weapons:

-Characters: up to 50% of the force total
-Squads: at least 25% of the force total
-Support: up to 50% of the force total

For example when choosing troops from the Ultramarines Codex, you could take a single Terminator captain to lead it for 125pts, but only if that cost represents 50% or less of your total forces. Even the +5 for Veteran sergeants for squads comes from that allocation.

5 Tactical/Devastator marines could be the 25% of a 600pt force.

Not everything would be perfect, and some parts might be fiddly, but it might be fun.

Yes, there's no reason that shouldn't work. I'd give sergeants and such a 6" Ld bubble, and I'd recommend that if you want to duplicate Necromunda's gameplay you assign some appropriate skills to your units. By way of example, if I recall correctly the rules in Outlanders, Space Marines (technically Chaos Marines, but the two were essentially identical at the time) had Rapid Fire, True Grit and Never Pinned. Even at a "cost" of 300 credits each with their equipment, just three Space Marines would kick the crap out of a 1000 credit starting gang, so I'd be careful if you intended to mix the two games (though I remember fun times fighting off getting kerbstomped by Arbites and Genestealers when playing my trusty Cawdors).

This is certainly a fair bit of food for thought.

Seeing as I have no 2nd edition codecies or rulebook, don't suppose you guys could help with working out points?

For most troops it was a x10 multiplier. genestealer cult list was based off of a x10 and I think the ork list was too.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:This is certainly a fair bit of food for thought.

Seeing as I have no 2nd edition codecies or rulebook, don't suppose you guys could help with working out points?

I am a lazy swine, and disinclined to type out dozens of pages of stats.

I would, however, since I have recently exhumed a vast pile of 2nd edition junk, most of in only "slightly foxed" condition, cheerfully sell you the rulebooks and black book codex for a token sum (plus postage).

you want the black book codex, it is a huge boon to necromunda players

Even at a "cost" of 300 credits each with their equipment, just three Space Marines would kick the crap out of a 1000 credit starting gang, so I'd be careful if you intended to mix the two games (though I remember fun times fighting off getting kerbstomped by Arbites and Genestealers when playing my trusty Cawdors).

Actually, what I'm hoping to do is make it possible to play a hybrid of 2e and Necromunda. Have a battle between say, a Space marine patrol and a Ork warband but only with 10-20 models on a side that can act independently outside of squad formations if the players want, and with the depth of rules the Necromunda gives but I don't remember 2e having. Like models being able to get lucky and get back up with a flesh wound instead of just get removed as a casualty.

It wouldn't be for games of Space Marines versus Cawdor gangers, for that would be pretty hard to balance even with some sort of formula for points conversions.

I ran a lot of campaigns using arbites marines inquisitors genestealers orks and eldar. In the underhive a squad of 5 arbites and 1 inquisitor was a tough match for a 1500-2000 point gang of outlaws or cultists but not impossible. SM scouts make sense too.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Even at a "cost" of 300 credits each with their equipment, just three Space Marines would kick the crap out of a 1000 credit starting gang, so I'd be careful if you intended to mix the two games (though I remember fun times fighting off getting kerbstomped by Arbites and Genestealers when playing my trusty Cawdors).

Actually, what I'm hoping to do is make it possible to play a hybrid of 2e and Necromunda. Have a battle between say, a Space marine patrol and a Ork warband but only with 10-20 models on a side that can act independently outside of squad formations if the players want, and with the depth of rules the Necromunda gives but I don't remember 2e having. Like models being able to get lucky and get back up with a flesh wound instead of just get removed as a casualty.

It wouldn't be for games of Space Marines versus Cawdor gangers, for that would be pretty hard to balance even with some sort of formula for points conversions.

In which case, I'd start with the simple x10 multiplier on the black codex's costs (and use that in place of the trading post's costs). You might find that you'll need to reduce certain weapons' costs - say by about 2 - 5% for each point of strength above 7, each point of save modifier below -4 and each 12" of range above 48". Alternatively, your players may simply be wise enough to realise that they won't find many land raiders or monolithhs in a game of around 500 points (or rather 5000 credits).

If you intend to use the advancement mechanics, then I'd suggest you start elite troops higher up than gangers, at the leader's bracket, but give them a few skills to begin with. I like this idea, so I shall continue to think about it...

English Assassin wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:This is certainly a fair bit of food for thought.

Seeing as I have no 2nd edition codecies or rulebook, don't suppose you guys could help with working out points?

I am a lazy swine, and disinclined to type out dozens of pages of stats.

I would, however, since I have recently exhumed a vast pile of 2nd edition junk, most of in only "slightly foxed" condition, cheerfully sell you the rulebooks and black book codex for a token sum (plus postage).

Tempting offer, seeing as I'm a nut for rulebooks. Would really depend on the cost though.

Forgive me, but what's the black book/black codex?

the old 2nd edition boxed set had a generic black codex with every army in it.

Is the book of the trio listed as the Codex Imperialis, after the Wargear book and the Rulebook?

I've been looking to get the books I need to play 2e games, beyond the Codex books (I have all the vehicle cards I need for what I have in my collection).

To my mild embarrassment, I can no longer find my 2nd ed. rulebook, which probably ends my chances of selling any of them to anybody. A quick browse on eBay, however, suggests that you can probably pick up most 2nd ed. rulebooks for 99p each.

I have all the 2nd edition rule books and most of the codicies, Angels of death (blood and dark angels) tyranids, guard, chaos.

Let me know specifically what points you need and I will get you a base cost. I am interested ingetting into necromunda so you guys can help guide me

English Assassin wrote:To my mild embarrassment, I can no longer find my 2nd ed. rulebook, which probably ends my chances of selling any of them to anybody. A quick browse on eBay, however, suggests that you can probably pick up most 2nd ed. rulebooks for 99p each.

Damn, that's cheap. I'll need to have a look at some point.

Well, if you manage to find the rulebook by itself, PM and I'll accept a token sum for the pile of 2nd junk I have taking up space in the attic; I'd be glad to know it would be made use of. I could probably throw in the White Dwarfs with Necromunda articles too. Come to think of it I also have the ones with the Confrontation (original Necromunda) rules.