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I was playing a game last night, and I was using my trustworthy Chaos Dread Zoidberg. I had started using Chaos Dreads again towards the end of 5th edition when they fixed them in the Chaos Space Marine FAQ so they they only target units in front of them when they roll a 1 on their Crazed special ability. The old way was that if you rolled a 1, you would spin 360 degrees and shoot the closest unit (friend or foe).

I rolled a 1 last night on the Crazed roll and went to check the FAQ to see if there was anything I needed to know from the update, and I didn't see the listing from the last 5th edition codex that showed that Chaos Dread only fires on units in its front 45 degree arc when Crazed. They mentioned what happens if you roll a 6, but the info about rolling a 1 was missing.

Did GW re-nerf the Chaos Dread? Or is this another omission, like the Black Templar Typhoon missile launcher?

Dammit all...

The FAQ stated what was ALREADY IN the RULEBOOK.

Dreads can't see behind them, they only see within a 45 degree arc from their guns. The rule tells you to fire at the closest visible unit. Therefore, a dread cannot fire at things it cannot see. Those rules have not changed, not since 5th edition.

It's still in the faq, just not in pink any more

lunarman wrote:It's still in the faq, just not in pink any more

Dangit, I finally found it. Thank goodness.

Also, it DOESN'T say to "fire at the closest visible unit." It actually says, and I'm typing from the book:

"At the beginning of the Shooting phase it must pivot on the spot towards the closest visible unit (friend or foe) and fire all of its weapons against it - twice!"

To me, and most other people, this always meant that it had to pivot on the spot and target the closest unit that it could see (meaning in line of sight) and fire. If it didn't say "pivot on the spot" then I would have totally agreed with you.

Luckily, it's still in the FAQ, so I'll keep them in service.

You just proved his point for him.

It says pivot on the spot towards the closest VISIBLE unit.

Vehicles draw LoS from the weapons. The dreds weapons are hull mounted. It has a 45 degree arc of LoS.

The closest visible unit would be a unit within that 45 degree arc.

The FAQ clarified what the rule already said.

I think if they wouldn't have used "pivot on the spot" in the rule then they wouldn't have to clarify the rules at all. Everybody I played with around here believed that you had to have your Dread spin around 360 (making it seem more "crazed") and should the closest unit it could draw a LoS to. If it was clear, then I suspect it wouldn't have had to end up in the Frequently Asked Questions.

The pivot on the spot is to ensure that both weapons can be brought to bare.

Yes, it is awful wording

When the crazed rule was written dreads had 180 degree firing arcs. They couldn't actually pivot towards to face their targets in the shooting phase normally. Crazed was easy to understand then. In 5th edition dreads got 45 degree weapon arcs and could pivot to face anything they wanted in the shooting phase. This strongly implied that the dread had 360 degree visibility. How else could a dread pivot to face anything it wanted to shoot with such limited firing arcs? So given the ability to pivot 360 and the instruction to do so in the crazed rule it easy to see why many people played crazed that way.

Arschbombe wrote:When the crazed rule was written dreads had 180 degree firing arcs. They couldn't actually pivot towards to face their targets in the shooting phase normally. Crazed was easy to understand then. In 5th edition dreads got 45 degree weapon arcs and could pivot to face anything they wanted in the shooting phase. This strongly implied that the dread had 360 degree visibility. How else could a dread pivot to face anything it wanted to shoot with such limited firing arcs? So given the ability to pivot 360 and the instruction to do so in the crazed rule it easy to see why many people played crazed that way.

It pivots in the movement phase... just like every other vehicle... you pivot to face the target you wish to shoot... except the dred pivots towards the closest VISIBLE unit when crazed.... the dred has a 45 degree arc LoS... and pivots towards a VISIBLE unit within that arc...

BarBoBot wrote:
It pivots in the movement phase... just like every other vehicle... you pivot to face the target you wish to shoot... except the dred pivots towards the closest VISIBLE unit when crazed.... the dred has a 45 degree arc LoS... and pivots towards a VISIBLE unit within that arc...

You do know that in walkers can pivot to face anything they want in the shooting phase, right?

This was true in 5th and remains true in 6th. "Visible" is never defined in the rules. If a target is out of LOS of a walker's weapons, but it can pivot to bring it into LOS and then shoot does that not mean that it was "visible" to the walker?

You cannot pivot before determining LoS when crazed. It says so by saying that you pivot towards the closest visible unit. .

It won't be a massive pivot, but you will usually still pivot some if it can see someone.

Visible has an implied definition - only things in LoS are visible. In both 5th and 6th.

Arschbombe wrote:

BarBoBot wrote:
It pivots in the movement phase... just like every other vehicle... you pivot to face the target you wish to shoot... except the dred pivots towards the closest VISIBLE unit when crazed.... the dred has a 45 degree arc LoS... and pivots towards a VISIBLE unit within that arc...

You do know that in walkers can pivot to face anything they want in the shooting phase, right?

This was true in 5th and remains true in 6th. "Visible" is never defined in the rules. If a target is out of LOS of a walker's weapons, but it can pivot to bring it into LOS and then shoot does that not mean that it was "visible" to the walker?

Im not sure why you keep arguing about it.

read the crazed rule all day long if you wish. Every time is still going to tell you you must pivot towards the closest VISIBLE unit. This is not rocket science. A VISIBLE unit is a unit that is within the LoS of one or more of the walkers weapons. If its not within a 45 degree arc is not VISIBLE to the dred. The faq only clarifies that, it changed nothing about the rule.

I dont think that this is a re nerfing of the chaos dread. Its still much better than it used to be, in fact even better than it was in my opinion. Just make sure you point yourself at the enemy and not a freindly unit. Dreads have to be in the front of your army now as they always have been.