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I always love reading these things, so I figured I'd give something back to the community. I mostly play with friends, so encountering a TFG in the wild is rare for me. Yesterday, I was playing my first 6e match of 40k when this guy comes up to the table. We discuss the new rules for a bit, when he mentions that he loves the new allocation rules. Specifically, he talks about putting a crisis suit commander with a group of fire warriors to get the mixed armor save. "It's great because by the rules you assign one wound, roll the save, assign the next wound, roll the save."

"Well you know that you don't get to take the best save, just the save for the guy in front, right?"

"Yeah."

"Oh, so the commander's standing in front to take the armor saves for his troops? Seems risky."

"No, he's in the back, but I get to roll the saves one at a time."

"OK, there's something I'm not getting. Why is rolling them one at a time better than en masse?"

"Because you can control one die more."

After clarifying that he was indeed talking about using manipulation to get a better chance of high die rolls, I called him a cheater to his face. It degenerated from there. Seriously, who brags about that sort of thing? The guy looked to be in his 20s, so no excuse for being a kid who doesn't know any better.

it does show a quicker way in the BRB about how to deal with kixed wounds faster. Say there are 15 wounds and 12 guys and then the suit for 13 total. The suit is at the back to speed up your mean to roll 12 dice take off the ones fromt he front that failed then if there are 6 fire warriors remaining take the other 3 saves and again take off from the front if any failed saves.

I forgot the new rules resolve more stuff as single dicerolls due to LOS and closest model. There are people who do use specific dice for single dice rolls so they can manipulate dice via rolling techniques. If the guy was doing rolling techniques to control the dice he is a cheater.

You could always request he roll one dice with a few other dice to help with randomization or use a dice cup... but if he is already intending to cheat, I doubt he would be open to doing stuff to make things more random and fair.

The fake call function on my phone is ideal for dealing with tfg.

btw, assuming he is rolling the dice properly - how is he manipulating the die roll?

marielle wrote:assuming he is rolling the dice properly

This would be making an ass of you and ming. He didn't demonstrate, so I'm guessing it's a matter of tossing it so that it doesn't tumble and just lands flat. And if I ever planned on playing this guy, I might insist he use a cup, but after admitting to cheating and not seeing anything wrong with it I don't see why I'd play him.

I've seen it argued that a single die roll has a better chance of rolling higher than getting multiple high rolls on dice... not entirely sure how that is supposed to work since its the same percentage chance per die, but maybe that is what he was referring to?

There are dice rolling techniques where you can influence the outcome of the die. They usually involve rolling the dice around the 1/6 axis so the sides 2/3/4/5 come up more frequently than 1/6. This is one of the major reasons casinos require your roll to hit the bank or be invalid as the bank destroys any preference rolled on an axis.

I have seen techniques and when you need a 3+ save, the technique can turn a 2/3rds into 3/4ths by attempting to eliminate the 1/6 sides. Also when most ICs have 2+ it can make them basically invulnerable. I have seen other techniques which people can manipulate dice into rolling a 4+ with a 90% efficiency simply by throwing the dice a practiced way and starting with the dice in a specific location.

It is usually clear when people are trying techniques, but one of the major things is they need square, hard cornered dice like casino dice. When I see someone rolling chessex for bulk rolls but then grab a casino dice for important roles, they are either cheating or emulating 'dice voodoo' which they picked up probably by watching someone who did it be 'lucky' (probably because he was cheating)

6th edition has a lot more opportunities for a series of single dice rolls which we may see people trying to pull shenanigans again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ufOkRoShk
Please disregard all the racist stuff dude says and just watch what he does.

cheating with dice is pretty easy if you know what to do and practice. Incidentally i have a good friend who insists that this is dice "skill". He and i have had many fights in dice games about the way he throws the dice. I told him he has to shake the dice so they fly around in his cupped hands and then thrown them so that they roll and bounce across the table or else i am not playing with him any more.

Dice tower solves all of these problems.

I've always found a good rebuttal is that if you're doing something that'd get you kneecapped in Vegas, you're cheating.

But I like dice towers too. They're fun.

You can make a simple dice box and that solves the problem as well.

sennacherib wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ufOkRoShk
Please disregard all the racist stuff dude says and just watch what he does.

cheating with dice is pretty easy if you know what to do and practice. Incidentally i have a good friend who insists that this is dice "skill". He and i have had many fights in dice games about the way he throws the dice. I told him he has to shake the dice so they fly around in his cupped hands and then thrown them so that they roll and bounce across the table or else i am not playing with him any more.

I don't understand that video. He's just rolling dice, and then later goes through and puts the audio over the top for what number he rolled to pretend he's predicting it. He doesn't appear to do anything consistent to get any numbers, and at no point does he roll any number repeatedly (ie, I'd be more inclined to believe him if he could get double 6 4 times in a row).

Bookwrack wrote:I've always found a good rebuttal is that if you're doing something that'd get you kneecapped in Vegas, you're cheating.

But I like dice towers too. They're fun.

Hah, well put!

Trasvi wrote:

sennacherib wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ufOkRoShk
Please disregard all the racist stuff dude says and just watch what he does.

cheating with dice is pretty easy if you know what to do and practice. Incidentally i have a good friend who insists that this is dice "skill". He and i have had many fights in dice games about the way he throws the dice. I told him he has to shake the dice so they fly around in his cupped hands and then thrown them so that they roll and bounce across the table or else i am not playing with him any more.

I don't understand that video. He's just rolling dice, and then later goes through and puts the audio over the top for what number he rolled to pretend he's predicting it. He doesn't appear to do anything consistent to get any numbers, and at no point does he roll any number repeatedly (ie, I'd be more inclined to believe him if he could get double 6 4 times in a row).

he has other videos on youtube. Plus i have seen stuff like this done. At first i was suspicious of the video but watch some of the other ones. He explains what it is that hes doing.

Look he's not cheating when it comes to the new wound allocation system. It's very easy, look:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/WoundAllocation6E.pdf