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Would you have a problem in a tournament setting if someone used a Chaos Hell Blade (with some minor conversion to be WYSIWYG) as a Storm Raven?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_VEHICLES_AND_ACCESSORIES/HELL-BLADE-CHAOS-FIGHTER.html

Scale Pics:

http://yrcm.free.fr/figurines/images/chaos/hellblade11.JPG

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1285420688/gallery_39401_2771_532720.jpg

Argument is the passengers use chaos tech to "teleport" down instead of disembarking. Similar to a Night Scythe.

I've seen some weirder stuff and I personally wouldn't have a problem with an opponent doing this, but I would like to hear other opinions.

It's up to your TO, contact him before hand.

I would be more happy to see it as a Storm Talon, which has more similar armament and no transport capacity, and I believe is of a more comparable size.

I kinda would.

It looks nothing like a transport, its very obviously not a vehicle with any kind of hover mode. The raven has VTOL engines, which make it look like its made for landing or at least hovering and dropping off troops.

I have no problem with proxies for the most part, as long as the models represent what they are replacing. I feel that this does not.

juraigamer wrote:It's up to your TO, contact him before hand.

Of course, I just wanted to hear player's opinions on the matter. TO consent or not, I don't want to make waves.

Hell blade is tiny compared to a stormraven, not a suitable conversion at all, get a hell talon instead

If this were at one of my tournaments I would be fine with the chaos teleporting idea.

As far as hovering goes, the underside of the Hell Blade has four very distinct round thrust vents which fluff-wise probably allows for at least limited VTOL capabilities. Because of those vents, I would not disqualify it on the basis of a lack of visible hover capability.

I would instead disqualify it on the basis of size in comparison to the Stormraven. the hell Blade is so much smaller that allowing it brings it into danger of being accused of "Modeling for Advantage".

The problem with the question is that you aren't filling in the rest of the details:

What army is your main detachment?

The reason I ask is that I will and would have a problem with people using counts-as for their allied units, especially if they are using models from the same army as their primary detachment.

So if you're playing CSM, for example, as your primary detachment and then you want to use allied Blood Angels to get the Stormraven but then you use more CSM models to represent your Blood Angels, as your opponent, I am at a disadvantage trying to remember which models are supposed to be Blood Angels and which are supposed to be CSM.


It was one thing to have counts-as armies before 6th, but at least there you always knew every model was coming from a single codex, so it cut down on the confusion a bit. However with allies being part of 6th, I think using counts-as models from one army to represent models from another army is completely unfair to your opponents.

yakface wrote:


It was one thing to have counts-as armies before 6th, but at least there you always knew every model was coming from a single codex, so it cut down on the confusion a bit. However with allies being part of 6th, I think using counts-as models from one army to represent models from another army is completely unfair to your opponents.

This.

I have already seen how people plan to simply take a unit and 'count as' it as a model from an allied codex with no conversions simply because they want those rules. Like using shoota boyz as Iguard when orks ally with Iguard and being no significant difference between a ork shoota and a Iguard Lasguard apart from someone saying so.

There is way more to WYSIWYG than simply weapons. Same goes for vehicles, especially for unconverted vehciles with very clear and distinct rules.

WhiteDevil wrote:Scale Pics:

http://yrcm.free.fr/figurines/images/chaos/hellblade11.JPG

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1285420688/gallery_39401_2771_532720.jpg

Argument is the passengers use chaos tech to "teleport" down instead of disembarking. Similar to a Night Scythe

I would be fine with this. Just with 2 caveats. First, the base needs to change to the flyer size. (not need be on the exact stand, but the base needs to be the same)

2, it follows all the same rules at the codex its being taken from. (blood angel "csm conversion" storm raven. no inversion beam from the night scythes. Tho fluff justification is fine)

I own three of them and a storm raven dwarfs it, they aren't much bigger than the flight stand.. And the bomber is about a foot long! neither make good choices. You are better off spikyfing a storm raven.

Well as a side note, I suppose they could be used as Night Scythes in a Dark Mechanicus army.