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Ok, as per Subject, I am sure that I know the answer to this question,but just for clarification: If you rapid fire with bolters (lets say at 12") can you allocate wounds to models being more than 12" away?

The range of the Bolter is 24 inches, not 12 inches.

What the rule is saying is if models die past a weapons range, they still keep dying if the wounds haven't all been allocated.

god.ra wrote:Ok, as per Subject, I am sure that I know the answer to this question,but just for clarification: If you rapid fire with bolters (lets say at 12") can you allocate wounds to models being more than 12" away?

Absolutely!

The way rapid fire weapons are worded are that you get to fire 2 shots at s target up to half the weapon's maximum range. Target = target enemy unit, so as long as a model with a rapid fire weapon is within half range of at least one model, he gets to fire 2 shots against the enemy unit.


When it comes to the range and LOS restrictions on casualty removal, some people are reverting back to 3rd or 4th edition rules, when that isn't the case. In 6th edition, only models that are COMPLETELY out of range or LOS from the firing UNIT aren't eligible as casualties.

So if your unit has a 48" missile launcher in it and the entire enemy unit is within 48" then no models in that enemy unit are considered out of range, regardless of what weapon is causing the wounds.

If you check out the 'out of range' rule on page 16, and read it carefully you'll see that all that matters is if the model was within range of the enemy at the start of the unit's shooting...as long as they were, then they are a valid target.


So in short, range and LOS sniping are much, much less potent then they used to be in 3rd and 4th edition because they aren't applied to each individual weapon being fired...only models in the target that are completely out of range or LOS from all the firing models are safe.

DeathReaper wrote:The range of the Bolter is 24 inches, not 12 inches.

That is my logic, but the guy i was playing against claimed :"rapid fire halves your range ...."

god.ra wrote:
That is my logic, but the guy i was playing against claimed :"rapid fire halves your range ...."

Well, just read the actual rapid fire rules text to him, as it never says that.

I must say that this discussion is a bit confusing to me. I was under the impression that as long as at least one model of the unit was in range at the beginning of shooting then all wounds caused to the unit would still allow those out of range to get killed.
Well, an example:
1. Marines are shooting at a unit of 15 ork boyz just at the edge of their 24" range, all marines have los and range to at least one boy, all in all only 3 boyz are in range though.
2. Marines cause 8 unsaved wounds.
3. Now are the 8 closest boyz removed or just the 3 that were in range?
I have always assumed that 8 will die, but this discussion is making me confused.

In 5th edition it was usually the 8 boyz from the very back of the unit, probably not even in LOS.

In 6th it's closest first, and only those in range and LOS. (So 3 boyz)

yakface wrote:

god.ra wrote:Ok, as per Subject, I am sure that I know the answer to this question,but just for clarification: If you rapid fire with bolters (lets say at 12") can you allocate wounds to models being more than 12" away?

Absolutely!

The way rapid fire weapons are worded are that you get to fire 2 shots at s target up to half the weapon's maximum range. Target = target enemy unit, so as long as a model with a rapid fire weapon is within half range of at least one model, he gets to fire 2 shots against the enemy unit.


When it comes to the range and LOS restrictions on casualty removal, some people are reverting back to 3rd or 4th edition rules, when that isn't the case. In 6th edition, only models that are COMPLETELY out of range or LOS from the firing UNIT aren't eligible as casualties.

So if your unit has a 48" missile launcher in it and the entire enemy unit is within 48" then no models in that enemy unit are considered out of range, regardless of what weapon is causing the wounds.

If you check out the 'out of range' rule on page 16, and read it carefully you'll see that all that matters is if the model was within range of the enemy at the start of the unit's shooting...as long as they were, then they are a valid target.


So in short, range and LOS sniping are much, much less potent then they used to be in 3rd and 4th edition because they aren't applied to each individual weapon being fired...only models in the target that are completely out of range or LOS from all the firing models are safe.

The interesting part is when the entire unit that's shooting has 24" rapid fire weapons and all of them are shooting 2 shots at a unit where a portion of the models are more than 12" away.

This is interesting from a technical point of view, I should add, I do feel the rules are clear enough that rapid fire weapons are supposed to be versatile in wounding range.

yakface wrote:
When it comes to the range and LOS restrictions on casualty removal, some people are reverting back to 3rd or 4th edition rules, when that isn't the case. In 6th edition, only models that are COMPLETELY out of range or LOS from the firing UNIT aren't eligible as casualties.

Warbrucey wrote:In 5th edition it was usually the 8 boyz from the very back of the unit, probably not even in LOS.

In 6th it's closest first, and only those in range and LOS. (So 3 boyz)

I don't see anythng in the rules that limits casualties to those models in range. If even one model is in range of the shooting models, then the entire target unit can be removed.
p.15 left column para 3, and right column para 3

The only caveat is for model out of LoS.
p. 16 left column para 2

There is no such restriction on target models being in range. The only mention of Out of Range is dealing with shooting models still being in range despite casualty removal.

Yeah, thats how I have been playing it to. Reading the out of range para on page 16 seems to verify that. As long as one model was in range at the begining of shooting all are eligeble to get hit. (Thus 8 dead boyz).

It is the reasonable way to do it as well, shooting phases would be a measuring nightmare if it wasnt so.... and you had to keep even more wounding pools seperate to distinguish long shots from short ones...

The thing to remember though is that to be able to shoot at all you have to be in range. If, say 4 of 10 guys are in rapid fire range, only those guys can rapid fire, everyone else just get their single shots.

Nice catch there coredump.

To sum up you can only allocate to models in LOS of at least one of the models in the firing unit. Range only matters before rolling to hit.

coredump wrote:
There is no such restriction on target models being in range. The only mention of Out of Range is dealing with shooting models still being in range despite casualty removal.

That's correct.

P16 "Out of range" is a bit confusing , but the end of the paragraph clarifies it.
A target model out of range is not safe as long as one model in its unit was in range at the begining of shooting. (unless it is not in LOS of course)

Tarrasq wrote:Nice catch there coredump.

To sum up you can only allocate to models in LOS of at least one of the models in the firing unit. Range only matters before rolling to hit.

Yep, it looks like I stand corrected. Although range and LOS can prevent some models in the firing unit from getting to shoot (if they don't have range and LOS to at least one model), only LOS actually affects casualty removal.