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So I already own a Dreadknight and a Stormraven so, in order to make use of the models, I'm going to pick up a box of GK Termies and a Grand Master to make an allied force for my Vanilla Marines. While I'm partial to Halberds, the nerf to AP3 makes spamming them seem a lot less viable so I need a little help kitting out the 6 Termie models. This unit, ideally, will be charging out of a Storm Raven that just converted to Hover Mode. Here is what I'm thinking:

Grand Master - Daemonhammer, Incinerator
Terminator Justicar - Daemonhammer
Terminator - Daemonhammer
Terminator - Halberd, Incinerator
2x Terminators - 2x Halberds

My idea with this is a blend of speed and AP2 that, thanks to the newfound strength of the 2+ armour save, should be quite durable. I'm also considering a Warding Stave in the unit somewhere but the AP4 is very unappealing; the 2++ is incredible though. Also, where would the Warding Stave be best? Maybe throw it on the Justicar, just to tarpit scary characters?

I'd trade the Incinerator halberd, and the GM hammer for swords, for the improved Invulnerable save. With the bigger terminator bases, you'll find that you get in your own way when charging, which can mean you aren't as likely to get everyone forward at I6 to swing. By staggering out your initiative steps, you're stepping forward more often, and have more precise control over what you are putting attacks into.

Don't take Incinerators. Not even GK players take Incinerators. Take a Psycannon instead, its pure awsome.

Grey Templar wrote:Don't take Incinerators. Not even GK players take Incinerators. Take a Psycannon instead, its pure awsome.

Incinerators are absolutely horrifyingly good on interceptors, but that is about their only use. Because of overwatch if you expect to ever not be running with these guys i'd go psycannon, if not you can throw incinerators in the unit but I bet you can find better places to use those points.

My biggest gripe about Incinerators is that on the units that could make use of them they are horribly expensive, and the units that have zero use for them get them for dirt cheap/free.

I mean, seriously? Purifiers get Incinerators for free = WTF? Cleansing Flame is a million times better, why would I want free flamers?

Grey Templar wrote:
I mean, seriously? Purifiers get Incinerators for free = WTF? Cleansing Flame is a million times better, why would I want free flamers?

Because cleansing flame doesn't ID 2 bases of scarabs per wound.

Incinerator on the Grand Master is totally worth it at only 5pts. I'd take a Psycannon on the Terminators though. Sword for the Grand Master too.

SonicPara wrote:So I already own a Dreadknight and a Stormraven so, in order to make use of the models, I'm going to pick up a box of GK Termies and a Grand Master to make an allied force for my Vanilla Marines. While I'm partial to Halberds, the nerf to AP3 makes spamming them seem a lot less viable so I need a little help kitting out the 6 Termie models. This unit, ideally, will be charging out of a Storm Raven that just converted to Hover Mode. Here is what I'm thinking:

Grand Master - Daemonhammer, Incinerator
Terminator Justicar - Daemonhammer
Terminator - Daemonhammer
Terminator - Halberd, Incinerator
2x Terminators - 2x Halberds

My idea with this is a blend of speed and AP2 that, thanks to the newfound strength of the 2+ armour save, should be quite durable. I'm also considering a Warding Stave in the unit somewhere but the AP4 is very unappealing; the 2++ is incredible though. Also, where would the Warding Stave be best? Maybe throw it on the Justicar, just to tarpit scary characters?

What elite choice are you using?, if I am correct from what I've been told is that you'd need atlest one of each: HQ, elite, troops, fast attack & heavy support(?)

What elite choice are you using?, if I am correct from what I've been told is that you'd need atlest one of each: HQ, elite, troops, fast attack & heavy support(?)

For your allies you need minimum of 1 HQ, and 1 troop. You can then have optional 1 elite, 1 fast ,1 Heavy and 1 more troop

Those count towards your total force alotment

sudojoe wrote:

What elite choice are you using?, if I am correct from what I've been told is that you'd need atlest one of each: HQ, elite, troops, fast attack & heavy support(?)

For your allies you need minimum of 1 HQ, and 1 troop. You can then have optional 1 elite, 1 fast ,1 Heavy and 1 more troop

Those count towards your total force alotment

Wait, do you mean they count towards you're regular army total? So if I took a GK elite I could only take two regular Marine elites? That isn't true. The allies force is separate, so you can take the whole ally allotment and still take your regular force as well.

bb

No pretty sure allies are a separate foc and do not use up your codex slots.

SonicPara wrote: I'm also considering a Warding Stave in the unit somewhere but the AP4 is very unappealing; the 2++ is incredible though. Also, where would the Warding Stave be best? Maybe throw it on the Justicar, just to tarpit scary characters?

A warding staff is an unusual force weapon and is ap3. I've been looking into this warding staff business while doing research to set up my army and I'm not entirely sure its worth the points. Granted on a terminator its only 20 points but it seems like a waste if put on anything save a character you expect to be challenged. The hammers really only seem necessary to take down MC's and other termies. With other terminators you'll both be striking at the same time and don't MC's ignore armor saves (sorry I'm pretty new)? It seems that a mix of swords and halberds with one hammer would be the ideal load out. I'd probably drop the hammer on the GM and give him a pair of falchions myself. He's already initiative 5 so he'll be going before or at the same time as just about everyone save eldar. The incinerator seems like it wastes the BS6 but then again a psycannon is WAY too expensive for him.

Dunwich wrote:Incinerator on the Grand Master is totally worth it at only 5pts. I'd take a Psycannon on the Terminators though. Sword for the Grand Master too.

And waste his BS6?

Grand master - I'd go for sword and incin, maybe add halberd (BS6 is great, but it only a storm bolter.....) though maybe just drop the incin. and if possible throw some nades on him! Psycho are nice, and rad could help a little.

terminators - I'd go for 3-4 halberds, and 1-2 hammers, and a psycannon

storm raven - I like TL LC and TL MM, maybe change LC to anything (their all good)

dreadknight - teleporter and incinerator, maybe add a psycannon to him.

GMs can get Psycannons. Tell me a BS6 Psycannon isn't awsome. Yeah, its expensive, but he's already ~250 pts so who cares.

I have done some thinking and this is where I am at:

Teminator Squad : 225 Points
- Justicar (Warding Stave)
- Terminator (Halberd, Incinerator)
- Terminator (Halberd)
- 2x Terminators (Daemonhammer)

Grand Master : 235 Points
- Psycannon, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades



I'm tempted to swap out the Grand Master's Force Sword for a halberd (I7 for the lulz) or falchions but I can't help but feel like he needs an AP2 weapon. A hammer would squander his higher I value but without an AP2 weapon on a character, I can't execute offensive challenges in any situation. However, most enemies that would require an AP2 weapon to beat down would probably be hitting back with one as well so a hammer on the Grand Master would be very risky as well; I'm a bit torn here. I also don't like having the hammers in the unit on non-characters as my opponent can simply challenge and avoid them.

BewareOfTom wrote:storm raven - I like TL LC and TL MM, maybe change LC to anything (their all good)

dreadknight - teleporter and incinerator, maybe add a psycannon to him.

The way I see a Storm Raven and its armaments is that a Multi-Melta is almost required on the nose while the dorsal weapon needs to synergize with the missiles; this is all for the sake of targeting and Power of the Machine Spirit. The philosophy is a 5th edition one but it still applies in 6th as a flyer can still only engage a single target. The thinking here is that you engage your primary target with your missiles and your dorsal weapon while you use Power of the Machine Spirit to fire off the Multi-Melta at an appropriate target. Since flyes can fire four weapons and the Storm Raven only carries two in addition to its missiles, you need to have the dorsal weapon and missiles work together to get the maximum damage output from the craft. For this reason I like the Plasma Cannon and Assault Cannon more than the Lascannon on the GK Storm Raven. On the BA one, since the missiles are anti-tank, the Lascannon is the superior choice.

For the Dreadknight I always used to run it with the teleporter and greatsword but since the DCCWs give the Dreadknight S10, using the Greatsword comes at the cost of S10 and a hefty points cost. I'm considering running it bare with nothing but a teleporter. The Incinerator is fantastic but I think that the Psilencer and Psycannon are terrible on it because Psilencers are almost always bad and the Psycannon is no more powerful and is actually less accurate due to it being a template. The buff to anti-tank templates may inspire me to try out the Psycannon again but even at S7 I don't see it really being that special. It also doesn't help that the Dreadknight is extremely expensive with the teleporter.

korghan wrote:

SonicPara wrote: I'm also considering a Warding Stave in the unit somewhere but the AP4 is very unappealing; the 2++ is incredible though. Also, where would the Warding Stave be best? Maybe throw it on the Justicar, just to tarpit scary characters?

A warding staff is an unusual force weapon and is ap3. I've been looking into this warding staff business while doing research to set up my army and I'm not entirely sure its worth the points. Granted on a terminator its only 20 points but it seems like a waste if put on anything save a character you expect to be challenged. The hammers really only seem necessary to take down MC's and other termies. With other terminators you'll both be striking at the same time and don't MC's ignore armor saves (sorry I'm pretty new)? It seems that a mix of swords and halberds with one hammer would be the ideal load out. I'd probably drop the hammer on the GM and give him a pair of falchions myself. He's already initiative 5 so he'll be going before or at the same time as just about everyone save eldar. The incinerator seems like it wastes the BS6 but then again a psycannon is WAY too expensive for him.

warding staffs are awesome; however, now with the change to 'perils or the warp' if you roll a 1+1 or 6+6 or are facing Eldar you will lose your expensive justicar as Perils are resolved against him first and no more invunerable saves.

Exergy wrote:warding staffs are awesome; however, now with the change to 'perils or the warp' if you roll a 1+1 or 6+6 or are facing Eldar you will lose your expensive justicar as Perils are resolved against him first and no more invunerable saves.

The unit will always be running with the Grand Master who will be the one casting Hammerhand or activating Force Weapons, so this should be a problem.

SonicPara wrote:I have done some thinking and this is where I am at:

Teminator Squad : 225 Points
- Justicar (Warding Stave)
- Terminator (Halberd, Incinerator)
- Terminator (Halberd)
- 2x Terminators (Daemonhammer)

Grand Master : 235 Points
- Psycannon, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades



I'm tempted to swap out the Grand Master's Force Sword for a halberd (I7 for the lulz) or falchions but I can't help but feel like he needs an AP2 weapon. A hammer would squander his higher I value but without an AP2 weapon on a character, I can't execute offensive challenges in any situation. However, most enemies that would require an AP2 weapon to beat down would probably be hitting back with one as well so a hammer on the Grand Master would be very risky as well; I'm a bit torn here. I also don't like having the hammers in the unit on non-characters as my opponent can simply challenge and avoid them.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? I have the Grand Master model ready to go, just need to glue on the arms/weapons.