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I have been playing since 5th ed released and when 6th came out I was really against glances taking hull points. While I still feel like 2-4 hull points is kinda low I see its point now and support it. Last night playing in a 5th edition game for the first time since I have been playing I experienced what many people have been talking about in reguards to things with armor 13-14 almost unkillable. The funny thing is that my experience was with an armor 12 ba stormraven. I want to make note that the person I was playing was not making every cover save he actually only made maybe 3, and was very patient with me when explaining about how the 4 missles each count as a weapon destroyed solo.

I want to make this clear this is not a whine thread of such an such is over powered or broken...this is a thread about how I now fully understand why GW made the decision to incorperate hull points AND let glances remove them. I also know that some people have been saying this stuff since announced, and I had disagreed till now. I do admit I play a 5th motor pool of sorts with space wolfs so I felt the inpact first hand of the GW decision that I now support.

I am 100% glad that this happened to me last night because if it had not I would still be in the same mindset as before. A brief summary of my list 15 missle launcher long fangs, 3 las/plas razorbacks, 1 TL razorback, 3 combi-melta (used 2 on stormraven only), 6 melta, as list to not be triffled with against low armor vehicles. 1st round of shooting the Stormraven moved flat out so I was going for the easy immoblized result, and my opponent only made like 2 cover saves maybe 3 in this volly of shooting so it was a good round for me on that aspect. I ended up shooting everything in my list except for 2 plama guns and 3 melta (poped 2 combi though so 5 melta I shot) at this plane lol.

So here are the results for the round of shooting as I had no problems glancing or penatrating this plane. I had (with modified rolls for ap and glances) 3 shaken stunned, 2-3 stunned, 3 weapon destroyed. My next round I did not put much into it because of that turn and I needed to frag a squad of assault marines in a nice little bundle (15 frags there) so just put my las/plas and meltas into it that where in range. I ended up with a couple of shaken/stunned results...anyways by the end of the game the stromraven which was still alive not immoblized and contested an objective lol had 1 missle left (he shot one).

Its all fair and good as that is 40k, how I learned and have always played 40k - just have never seen this stuff only heard of it on the internet. I was confused as hell about me having to treat each missle individually as that took some explaining to me (as I said before I have never seen this happen) - and as per rules thats how it is (don't wanna get into a rule argument or if it should change or not thats not for this thread please.) So as before I am for the hull points and hull point glances. I am greatful that I got to ecperience this myself so I could understand the changes and not be bitter throughout 6th because I did not see the full picture.

BTW to my opponent - great game, had fun, and as always I learned lots of new things! I also found your STORMRAVEN base on the table taunting me LOL don't worry I did not trash it LOL I put it on the TO table and he is suppose to call your name out tomorrow - I am also going to find you and let you know its there.

Hull points make sense and I like the idea to, the only thing is it has made necrons warriors just as good as your ML Long fangs at taking out a Land raider and for alot less points

And nothing about CC mentioned...where any 10 strong SM squad can get below average rolls and still typically kill anything from a stationary rhino to a mobile Leman Russ to a 36" screaching Holofield Falcon.

Keep in mind you're also talking about shooting at an AV12 flyer that's immune to melta double-pen and completely unable to be assaulted, one of the hardest vehicles in the game to kill, and not typical of 98% of vehicles in this game, and your results were highly atypical rolling if accounting for 5E rules (about the same as a Space Marine making 8-9 armor saves in a row with a failing average of 1 in 3) and shouldn't be used as a baseline, unless you want to start saying that a space marine should just auto die if you force 3 saves on him, because that's functionally what Hull Points do.

Well, actually what they do is they turn vehicles into T6-10 2-4W models with no save that are hideously vulnerable (and incapable of resistance to) close combat.

Gw was nice though to give cover saves to 25% obscured now so just gotta play a bit smarter maybe. Yeah 5th edition - atypical means out of the ordinary? Yeah the no double pen sucks lol I was able to get those np though. I see all your points...I think the amount of hull points given to each vehicle might be low, but I do agree still about glances giving them.

As Vaktathi said, SRs are one of, if not THE hardest vehicles in the game to destroy. Flyers in general are best dealt with using specific anti-air weapons, either from fortifications or from Hydras/some necron stuff.

I played Eldar a lot in 5th edition

Move a tank infront of your troops

Even if you pen that tank, it will probably survive with the double roll on the damage table

Only way to kill it is by rolling either a 5/5, 5/6, 6/5 or 6/6, (~10% of it happening) or give it enough weapon destroyed/immobilized rolls

Bassline wrote:Hull points make sense and I like the idea to, the only thing is it has made necrons warriors just as good as your ML Long fangs at taking out a Land raider and for alot less points

The missile launcher has a skyfire rocket now which gives it use that the necron warriors have trouble matching. But how is hull point so much different from 5e? Lets compare. In 5e the necron warriors glance, with the vehicle wrecking when it runs out of weapons to destroy and is immobilized. It comes standard with 3 weapons. Glances destroy weapon or immobilize 1/3 of the time. So it required about 12 glances to wreck it. With the new system you only need 4 glances to destroy it but glances dont immobilize or destroy weapons anymore.. In 5e they would have done permanent damage and 2/4 chance with each glance to make the land raider unable to move (stunned and immobilized) and a 3/6 chance (1 or less with -2 modifier) with each glance to make the land raider unable to shoot in the next turn. You stay at full strength more easily but get destroyed a bit faster. If the necrons dont get four glances in, you can either get away from them or shoot them to bits. I'd say small groups of necron got a bit worse at taking out land raiders. Massed Gauss does hurt more.

botobeno wrote:The missile launcher has a skyfire rocket now which gives it use that the necron warriors have trouble matching.

MLs don't have the Flakk missile yet, not until updated codex comes out saying they do.

CrashCanuck wrote:

botobeno wrote:The missile launcher has a skyfire rocket now which gives it use that the necron warriors have trouble matching.

MLs don't have the Flakk missile yet, not until updated codex comes out saying they do.

Indeed. The iBooks version has all of the 6th edition updates, and flakk is not an option.

People really need to read the text that goes with the missile launcher entry. It says some missile launchers have the option to upgrade with flakk missiles. Until you see the upgrade option in a codex or FAQ, your missiles launchers don't have it.

I also really like hull points in principle. I've played through three editions now, and the ultra wonkiness of sometimes paper-thin, sometimes literally indestructible vehicles has never sat well with me.

With hull points, you can start to form reasonable expectations about how things will behave on the table. Less total crazy random and more random within set parameters is a good thing.

Bassline wrote:Hull points make sense and I like the idea to, the only thing is it has made necrons warriors just as good as your ML Long fangs at taking out a Land raider and for alot less points

Perhaps you should have added "at killing only one vehicle that is also within 24 inches without ever being attacked back in any capacity." It's not a very valid comparison when you include reality.