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I've been running 2 doom scythes in my 2k necron list for a while now and have been having some pretty good success with them (though I haven't had a chance to play a 6th ed game yet), but people keep raving about A. Barges and how good they are. So which do most people think is better? Doom Scythe or A. Barge? Is a Doomsday Ark with considering?

In the new rules every heavy slot is nice. The a. barge is considered incredible due to its low point cost and the ap - is buffed. The monolith is still versatile and has great synergy deep striking in with the fliers. The doom scythe now has an even greater arm for its signature attack plus flyer defenses. The Doom ark seems like the odd man out only because of the pizzazz of the other options though in a vacuum that gun would be welcome in any codex.

If the doom scythes were filling a role and working for you in 5th they will do it all the same in 6th. They are going to auto reserve now so they have a buff/nerf in that regard (less incoming shots/ very tough, however less turns to use it).

Given how good night scythes are at bringing tesla at almost identical price I think the dooms are my personal favorite regardless.

I like the AB's most, have and run three in many games, just a pure volume of fire, thing, and you can get two for the price of one doom scythe. My suggestion drop one scythe and try to barges to see how it works out. I don't consider the monolith or doomsday ark to be in the same class as the barge and scythe.

A. Barges got a nice buff in 6th thanks to the way glances now resolve. They also get the Jink save if they move. They got easier to hit in cc though.

Doomsday Arks also got some nice buffs. The template just has to touch a vehicle to get full Strength, and AP1 on pens makes it a real killer. The Jink save is not as great since if you move the gun becomes much less effective.

However the 2 above don't even compare to how much Doom Scythes got buffed. Crazy move distance, harder to hit and an optional Jink save after you have fired. All of these combine to make the Doom Scythe deadly when on the offensive and high resilience thanks to 3 Hull Points, needing 6's to hit and a Jink save. Very different to 5th...dangerous as hell but a single volley from pretty much anything S8 or more would knock it out. 6th basically gave it a better threat range and improved it's survivability.

I run 3 at 1850 and have no regrets. YMMV.

They are all good.

Doomsday Arks can effectively cleanse an objective of anything with one shot, unless you roll terrible.

A. Barges are still for anti-horde/light armour, IMHO.

Monoliths are for advancing whilst swallowing shots

Doom Scythes just go "I'm a flyer, feth you"

Spyders can repair the others, and keep Scarabs in combat indeffinately, what with no Fearless saves and the ability to spawn three bases per turn (in a squad of three Spyders)

In 5th, Annihilation Barges were the best. Cheap and dangerous. Now with 6th, and Fliers being so much better, Doom Scythes are very good too.

I'd say, go with Annihilation Barges if you have no other fliers in your army, and Doom Scythes if you're taking Night Scythes as well. A single flier, or even two, will get shot out the sky quite rapidly. Taking 4 or 5 fliers will make your opponent's life much trickier.

I always run with 2 Anni Barges. For bigger game si will also use a Dooscythe....once i have one.

the Doomscythe obviously has the edge in firepower (Death ray) and Speed

The Barge has better front and side armour (quantum), it's on the tabel from turn one, and it can get a 4+ save (if it moves 12" and you snapfire the tesla).

Also the Anni Barge can rotate fully every turn. With the Scythe only being able to turn 90 degrees each turn it could take you a coupel of turns to line up that sweet starfing run. But when it works......BOOM!!!


Anyway, the Tesla Annihilator is just too good not to take. I woudl reccomend 2 barges and 1 Doomscythe. the Doomsday Ark is nice but suffers from never being to fire at full strngth and havign a Jink save. the Monolith is (i think) too much of a point sink at anythgin below 2000 points and what it offers isn't amazing compared to the other codex options.

It's a shame really as the 'lith was the iconic Necron vehicle and now you dont see them very often thanks to lack-lustre rules.

Gonna play devil's advocate here.
I run 2 A-barges and a monolith in my current 2000 point list.
A-barges are excellent for anti-infantry roles, they also due to their getting multiple hits on 6's, make good stopgap anti-air weapons.

The monolith actually got a pretty good buff this edition. The particle whip fires at full BS, even when moving, and you can snap fire ALL the gauss flux arcs on it. Also, if that pie plate so much as touches a vehicle, it takes the full strength hit, with the 2d6 pen.

Also, given that people tend to love autocannons and missiles for their anti armor- monoliths laugh at both. As autocannons can't hurt them, and krak missiles only glance on a 6, now even less likely since, with night fighting and shrouding, you can give your monolith a 2+ cover save while using jink (it IS a skimmer after all).

Its ability to deep strike, fire and disgorge troops shouldn't be underestimated in my book. My milage with mine has been excellent....I really should name it.

Yeah, I think people usually misuse the mono as an assault tank.
Its not a land raider or a LRBT; you do not want to get close with it.
You want it to support the rest of your army and to quickly mobilize your forces.

Ever wonder why the necrons don't get cheap spammable transports like the imperials? Cause they have a monolith.
Just my 2C on the purpose of the monolith.

I mean, its a focal point for your army to rally around. It isn't super fast, but it does the trick. Several times I've had mine immobilized, and it sits there unleashing ordinance weapon hell on anything that tries to get near the rest of my army that stays huddled around it. I keep my triarch stalker right next to it to ward off monsterous creatures, and to twin link that lovely pie plate.

iGuy91 wrote:I mean, its a focal point for your army to rally around. It isn't super fast, but it does the trick. Several times I've had mine immobilized, and it sits there unleashing ordinance weapon hell on anything that tries to get near the rest of my army that stays huddled around it. I keep my triarch stalker right next to it to ward off monsterous creatures, and to twin link that lovely pie plate.

Scratch the stalker, stick a C'tan with lord of fire next to it!
Melta explosions everywhere

You know that ordnance doesnt get 2D6 right? I thought it was you roll 2D6 and pick the highest...unless that's changed in 6th as well ro ordannce is now as good as Melta...

Praxiss wrote:You know that ordnance doesnt get 2D6 right? I thought it was you roll 2D6 and pick the highest...unless that's changed in 6th as well ro ordannce is now as good as Melta...

No, you're right. Its 2d6 and pick the highest.

Which means the monolith is not all that great at popping tanks. It will still murder clumped up MEQs though.

I think until flyers are nerfed with proliferation of skyfire or similar, Doomscythes just take the cake for me.

They carry the same gun as annihilation barges, plus the super-killiest gun in the game, plus all the advantages of being a flyer, all for a fairly reasonable price.

Annihilation barges are great for their price but they are opened topped and suffer as all vehicles do to an extent in 5th. Doomsday arks are fairly inflexible due to their non-movement rules and monoliths are survivable but can't put enough hurt out compared to even the annihilation barge.

In the end I'm forced to say just take 3 doomscythes and watch as your enemy is disintegrated into their smaller molecules.

buddha wrote:I think until flyers are nerfed with proliferation of skyfire or similar, Doomscythes just take the cake for me.

They carry the same gun as annihilation barges, plus the super-killiest gun in the game, plus all the advantages of being a flyer, all for a fairly reasonable price.

Annihilation barges are great for their price but they are opened topped and suffer as all vehicles do to an extent in 5th. Doomsday arks are fairly inflexible due to their non-movement rules and monoliths are survivable but can't put enough hurt out compared to even the annihilation barge.

In the end I'm forced to say just take 3 doomscythes and watch as your enemy is disintegrated into their smaller molecules.

All true, except once again you misunderstand the point of the monolith.
The monolith is not a killing machine; it is a support unit.
It's job is to help the other units kill stuff by teleporting them in range and potentially removing key threats with the Portal Of Exile (though that is more of a secondary role).
The Particle whip is really just there to provide covering fire, and to draw fire away from more dangerous (and weaker) vehicles such as the anni-barge.
That's why its AV14; to weather enough anti-tank fire long enough for the rest of the army to get into position.

Praxiss wrote:Which means the monolith is not all that great at popping tanks. It will still murder clumped up MEQs though.

Be honest, was it ever designed to pop anything more scary than a Chimera? No, it was pop it with the lith and Rapid-Fire what jumped out. Now it is the other way around, Rapid-Fire the Chimera and whip what jumps ou. Much killier

I agree with cthululsspy - I've seen a battle report (2500pts I think) where a necron player used 3 monoliths, and no transports. It worked surprisingly well tbh; he used them to sweep his warriors in and out of the action whilst unleashing the blasters on all the close infantry and the whip on unsuspecting rhinos. XD

I run my Monolith with a Triarch Stalker nearby. That can kill pretty much anything, armor, Meq, hordes. I also have a C'Tan with Lord of fire stand behind it (completely out of LOS) to act as a counter-charge unit.
I scoot this group up towards an objective and last turn, bring a minimal squad of warriors and a cryptek from one area of the board to claim the objective.
If the Monolith is threatened by a something it can't take, then bring a squad of warriors through the portal to rapid-fire it to death.

This worked great for me in 5th, I have yet to try it in 6th, but it seems everything about this combination got bettter with the new rules.

I would send the C'tan first, so any meltaguns are wasted on him and (possibly) kill the gunners.

Also, you can set up some 'rapid redeployment' moves on your enemy.

I would put a big squad of warriors with a IC and a unit of wraiths or scarabs on the opposite side of my deployment from the rest of my army and the monolith. The enemy will have to seperate his army to take on the two threats. Turn 1, transport that warrior squad through the monolith and the wraiths and scarabs use their speed to join the rest of my army.
This effectively cuts your opponents army in two (If he is dumb enough to fall for it). If he doesn't, well then, you know have full control one half of the board. It is a win-win situation!

I mostly play small games (usually 1000 points, 1500 points max), but I can't go past annihilation barges.

I think that for the cost they're very effective, and the 6th rules only made them more potent. Being able to move 6", fire the twin-linked destructor at full BS, and an underslung weapon as a snapshot is huge. This has - for me - made the decision between Tesla and Gauss Cannon a no brainer (especially when combined with the changes for AP - on the penetration roll). Being able to move 12" and snapshot everything is also fantastic. And now they have jink!

I haven't yet tested the doomsday ark. Their main value is in a MEQ heavy environment, and that's not where I play. For the cost, I don't think they're as good as an A Barge, considering all the other things you can have in your force with those extra points. At my point levels, the opportunity cost of the 85 points (difference between a barge and ark) is just too high.

I consider the Ark to be a bit of a glass cannon. Positioning is really important, and any turn moving or not shooting is a huge waste of points. I see them dropping very quickly against most opponents, given that they're actually more fragile than a barge (since they'll rarely move and probably won't have jink).

The monolith's problem is pure cost. It's great, and has a lot of flexibility. It's very resilient, and hard for your oppontent to plan against. Are you using it as a transport? A central beatstick? Mobile cover? They just don't know. However, I'd rather have 2 barges plus change than 1 monolith. Or even 1 barge and 8 warriors.

Doom Scythes are fantastic. However, I'm not using them because I get the feeling that they might be un-fun for my opponents. This is obviously an individual decision, but in the absence of sky fire, blazing in, drawing your line and firing some Tesla isn't going to let the opponent feel like their decisions matter. And an opponent who feels like their choices - either in terms of list or strategy - are irrelevant, will stop wanting to play pretty fast.

iGuy91 wrote:Gonna play devil's advocate here.
I run 2 A-barges and a monolith in my current 2000 point list.
A-barges are excellent for anti-infantry roles, they also due to their getting multiple hits on 6's, make good stopgap anti-air weapons.

The monolith actually got a pretty good buff this edition. The particle whip fires at full BS, even when moving, and you can snap fire ALL the gauss flux arcs on it. Also, if that pie plate so much as touches a vehicle, it takes the full strength hit, with the 2d6 pen.

Also, given that people tend to love autocannons and missiles for their anti armor- monoliths laugh at both. As autocannons can't hurt them, and krak missiles only glance on a 6, now even less likely since, with night fighting and shrouding, you can give your monolith a 2+ cover save while using jink (it IS a skimmer after all).

Its ability to deep strike, fire and disgorge troops shouldn't be underestimated in my book. My milage with mine has been excellent....I really should name it.

Actually I'm happy to point out that the gauss flux arcs aren't fired as snap fire. You get to use the standard BS for those shots even after moving. Check the rules for heavy tanks. 'Heavy: the vehicle cannot move faster than combat speed. When it shoots, it counts as having remained stationary.' I doubt you'll be upset about me pointing this out

True. but if you fire an ordnance weapon then any other weapons used must be shot via SnapFire. So you can move and use the whip AND use the Arc, but the arc will snapfire only.

Praxiss wrote:True. but if you fire an ordnance weapon then any other weapons used must be shot via SnapFire. So you can move and use the whip AND use the Arc, but the arc will snapfire only.

You're right. Thanks GW for making that so confusing. So now I suppose that means that you'd have to either choose to either fire the ordnance or use the eternity gate. since it says in the short explanation of snap fire in the beginning weapons like the eternity gate cannot snap fire.

I'm not sure about that one tbh.

the Eternity gate (teleport, right?) wudl happen in the movement phase.

the Exiel portal i think happens in the shooting phase but it's not technically a shooting weapon so not sure if Snapshot woudl affect it or not.

Praxiss wrote:I'm not sure about that one tbh.

the Eternity gate (teleport, right?) wudl happen in the movement phase.

the Exiel portal i think happens in the shooting phase but it's not technically a shooting weapon so not sure if Snapshot woudl affect it or not.

I recall it explicitly means the portal of exile in the BOB, under the snap shot section.
Well, somewhere anyway.

Doom Scythes are wonderful but I think Lukus is forgetting that the targets it deals with can also be dealt by a Night Scythe, 5 Warriors and a Stormtek. If points weren't an issue you'd always take the max amount of Doom Scythes, but since they are you have to weigh in what else you could get.

3 Doom Scythes = 525 points
3 Annihilation Barges, 4 Stormteks, 5 Warriors, Night Scythe = 535 points

Basically if you already had a few Warrior squads in Night Scythes, you got an extra squad and an extra Scythe with a Stormtek, and upgraded 3 of your existing squads with Stormteks, and got 3 Annihilation Barges.

In my opinion the switch from DScythes to ABarges and using the surplus points in troops choices and Stormteks gives you more firepower and more scoring models, and sacrifices a little flyer redundancy and an instant death threat against T5.

Army wise, I take 3 Doom Scythes in full flyer lists, and if I take any footsloggers like 3 units of Wraiths, I take 3 Annihilation Barges instead. That's because you'll be deploying an important compartment of your army anyway so you can support them with some vehicles. I always take 5 or 6 squads of Warriors in Night Scythes regardless. Funnily enough, nearby Annihilation Barges can operate the Comms Relay in an Aegis Defence line to bring the Night Scythes in more reliably.

Problem is that your dudes have to get out to shoot, a unit of 5 warriors is easy to kill. And a doom scythe can lots of people, combined with its height usually negating cover saves. It also has the movement ability to get where it needs to be while also pretty survivable.

Would I run more than 1-2 nope, I like my doomsday ark( they are good against pretty much everything)

Has any one broached the option of taking Night Scythes loaded with Immortals and tesla weapons? i know it is not a Heavy Weapon choice, but my past experiences with the Death Ray havn't been great. The possibility of moving 36 inchs and dumping 15 immortals hitting on 6's (getting 2 extra hits for every 6) is just too much fun!
Any thoughts?