1850 Vanilla Space Marine Bike/Vehicle Army... okay in 6th?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**djphranq**

EDIT 6: How's this look? I dropped the ABs w/ HBs, dropped the Libby w/ Bike, added 2 AutoLas Preds, and gave Melta bombs to the plasmagun squads.

HQ
Captain 175
Bike
Relic Blade
Combi- Melta or Combi- Plas
Digital Weapons

Troop
Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Fast Attack 155
Stormtalon
TML

Stormtalon 155
TML

Heavy Support
Pred 120
Lascannon Sponsons

Pred 120
Lascannon Sponsons

Old List 4

Spoiler:

Old List 3

Spoiler:

Old List 2:

Spoiler:

Old list 1:

Spoiler:

**Armadeus**

Your sargents can be singled out in combat by chalenges in 6th, so I'd switch out the PFs for power swords (make sure it is the sword, as other power weapons either aren't ap3 or strike at I1). On the upside, your attack bikes are T5 for instant death, so they only take one wound from MLs.

I have never been a fan of autocannons on dreads, but I know I am in the minority on that. If I where to use them for fire support, I would use TL lascannon, ML.

**djphranq**

Cool beans. I'm not missing anything like fortifications or something?

**walledin**

I play a similar army and have done fairly well with it so far this edition.

I find the power fists do fine for the most part. The trick is to try and throw the captain into any combat in which a PW sergeant could issue a challenge and have the captain punk the enemy character.

I think a Storm Talon would fair better than the two land speeder squadrons.

**Armadeus**

There are fortifications now, but as your running a rapid assault list, you don't need them. One thing you might want to do is swap out your dreads and speeders for Stormtalen gunships, as they are flyers, so are very hard to hit, and can take out other flyers.

Edit: ninja'd

**djphranq**

Hmmm Storm Talons you say?

I'll look into it. I was kind of hoping to see some Riflemen Dreads on the table because it would be like I was playing Mechwarrior or something.

**walledin**

If you dropped, the dozer blades on the vindis, both speeders and the predator you could buy a storm talon and an autolas pred and keep the dreads.

**Armadeus**

djphranq wrote:Hmmm Storm Talons you say?

I'll look into it. I was kind of hoping to see some Riflemen Dreads on the table because it would be like I was playing Mechwarrior or something.

Blast hit at full str, regardless of where the center of the blast is, so your vinds are good AT now.

Even if your playing mechwarrior, you have for AT:
6 MG,
3MM
2 Vindicators
1 autocannon
2 typhoon MLs ( if you keep the speeders)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you drop both the dreads, the speeders, change the fists into swords and drop one dozer blade, you can get 3 Stormtalon gunships with either 1 TL assault cannon and 1 typhoon missile launcher, OR 1 TL assault cannon and 1 skyhammer missile launcher each.

Which makes your AT:
6 MGs,
3 MMs,
2 Vindicators,
1 autocannon,
3 TL assault cannons,
and either 3 typhoon MLs, OR 3 skyhammer MLs

**djphranq**

Armadeus wrote:
djphranq wrote:Hmmm Storm Talons you say?

I'll look into it. I was kind of hoping to see some Riflemen Dreads on the table because it would be like I was playing Mechwarrior or something.

Blast hit at full str, regardless of where the center of the blast is, so your vinds are good AT now.

Even if your playing mechwarrior, you have for AT:
6 MG,
3MM
2 Vindicators
1 autocannon
2 typhoon MLs ( if you keep the speeders)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you drop both the dreads, the speeders, change the fists into swords and drop one dozer blade, you can get 3 Stormtalon gunships with either 1 TL assault cannon and 1 typhoon missile launcher, OR 1 TL assault cannon and 1 skyhammer missile launcher each.

Which makes your AT:
6 MGs,
3 MMs,
2 Vindicators,
1 autocannon,
3 TL assault cannons,
and either 3 typhoon MLs, OR 3 skyhammer MLs

I was meaning Mechwarrior the computer game but thanks for your suggestions. 3 Storm Talons on the table ought to look wicked boss.

**djphranq**

Changed the list. See OP for new list. Old list in spoilers.

**Pony_law**

I'd turn to of the bike squads to plasma instead of melta.

**Armadeus**

With those 15 points, I would give each of your bike squads Meltabombs, to take on vehicles and MCs in CC.

**djphranq**

Pony_law wrote:I'd turn to of the bike squads to plasma instead of melta.

What if I mix it in... have melta and plasma in each squad... I'd hate to lose the one squad with meltaguns...then again I do have Multi Meltas on the attack bikes...

Armadeus wrote:With those 15 points, I would give each of your bike squads Meltabombs, to take on vehicles and MCs in CC.

I was thinking about doing that since they lost the PFs

*goes back to the drawing board

**djphranq**

EDIT: Changed wording on the list to make it clearer

Reduced the size of the bike squads so as to add one more giving me more special weapons. I have 2 bike squads focused on anti-tank/anti-MC and two squads focused on anti-infantry. Dumped the power weapons for combi weapons on the Sergeants to make them to help the focus of their respective squads: combi-plasma for anti-infantry, combi-melta for anti-tank/anti-MC. Gave the anti-tank/anti-MC squads melta bombs. Gave the Captain a Combi-melta since the bolt pistol won't give him a bonus attack since the relic blade is two-handed plus the melta is for anti-tank/anti-MC. Gave the captain hellfire rounds to make ranged wounding easier. Upgraded the dozer blade on the Vindicator to a siege shield and gave the dakka pred a dozer blade.

I'm wondering if I should drop one of the upgrades from the captain to free up 10 points to give the plasma squad sergeants melta-bombs as a just in case type of thing. Maybe drop the hellfire rounds to free up 10 points (5 points each for melta bombs to the plasma squads). Or maybe drop the combi-melta on the captain and the dozer blade on the dakka pred to free up 15 points (5 points each for melta bombs to the plasma squads and the captain since he loses the melta shot).
I'm also toying around with the idea of dumping the Vindicator to make room for a squad of 3 Attack Bikes with HBs. They'd move faster than the Vindicator and still provide anti-infantry which is what I intended for the Vindicator's pie plate.

HQ
Space Marine Captain 185
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike
Combi-melta
Hellfire Rounds

Elite
Dreadnought 125
Autocannon
Autocannon

Dreadnought 125
Autocannon
Autocannon

Troop
Space Marine Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
Meltagun x2
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
Meltagun x2
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
5 bikes
Plasma gun x2
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
5 bikes
Plasma gun x2
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support 125
Vindicator
Siege Shield

Predator 90
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Dozer Blade

**djphranq**

Here is a new version of the list. I dropped the melta bombs on the Captain. I dropped the preds, vindicator, and rifleman dreads. Put in an attack bike squad with 3 bikes with HBs, another Plasmagun bike squad, and a librarian with a bike and force sword. With this latest version, everything moves fast.

HQ
Captain 175
Bike
Relic Blade
Combi-Plasma

Librarian 135
Force Sword
Bike

Troop
Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 220
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma

Bike Squad 220
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma

Bike Squad 220
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma

Fast Attack
Stormtalon 155
TML

Stormtalon 155
TML

Attack Bike Squad 120
3 Bikes

**SCP Yeeman**

I dont really like the libby. What do you hope he'll do for you?

I'm not sure on the points, but can you get an AutoLas Pred in for those 135pts? I think some long range in support of your bikes might be pretty helpful.

**djphranq**

SCP Yeeman wrote:
I dont really like the libby. What do you hope he'll do for you?

I'm not sure on the points, but can you get an AutoLas Pred in for those 135pts? I think some long range in support of your bikes might be pretty helpful.

I was thinking the Libby would provide some psyker capabilities to the army (I'm still learning all the psychic abilities so I'm not sure what I would have given him... maybe the codex powers of Vortex of Doom and Avenger)

The previous lists I had a Dakka pred, a Vindicator, and 2 rifleman dreads... should i have kept them as long range support? I took them out since they weren't as fast as the bikes.

I think AutoLas preds are 105 or 110... maybe i'll put in a couple of those and take out the libby and Attack bike squad.

EDIT: actually wouldn't my Stormtalons be a form of long range support?

**SCP Yeeman**

Well your Storm Talon has a TL- AssCan with only 24'' range, if your not firing that and only the missiles I think you're not using the Storm Talon to its full potential.

I dont think you need a vindi or the rifleman dreads. If you could take out the HB Atk Bikes and the Libby and get two AutoLas Preds in, I think that would look pretty good. I dont think you need alot of long range support, but some is always nice.

**Ricedaddy**

The minimum 18" movement of zoom almost prevents the Stormtalon from being long range support like a Pred would be. However, it's hard to bring down if your enemy doesn't have AA abilities and it can bring a lot of firepower for such rapid redeployment. To me, it would seem the best way to use two of them is to bring them on opposite ends of the reserve deployment zone and run kind of "criss-cross" strafing runs. While I've not seen enough of the Libby powers to be sure, there seem to be some very useful and very killy powers he could take. But that's up to the roll of the dice.

**djphranq**

How's this look? I dropped the ABs w/ HBs, dropped the Libby w/ Bike, added 2 AutoLas Preds, and gave Melta bombs to the plasmagun squads.

HQ
Captain 175
Bike
Relic Blade
Combi- Melta or Combi- Plas
Digital Weapons

Troop
Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
2 Meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ MM
Combi-Melta
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Bike Squad 225
5 Bikes
2 Plasmaguns
Attack Bike w/ HB
Combi-Plasma
Melta bombs

Fast Attack 155
Stormtalon
TML

Stormtalon 155
TML

Heavy Support
Pred 120
Lascannon Sponsons

Pred 120
Lascannon Sponsons

**SCP Yeeman**

I like it, alot. I think you have soem good firing base with the Preds, and 5 scoring troops. The Storm Talons can come in and take out flyers or punish light tanks or infantry.

I think it is solid.

Question, do you feel the Combi weapons and melta bombs are better than a Power Wep of soem sort? I know personal preferences play a huge part and I know people tht dont leave home without Power weps and some who dont leave home without Combi weps. What is your reasoning behind them? Just curious to know more than anything.

**djphranq**

I think the Combi-weapons and Meltabombs offer a little more for bikers than the PW. PW is okay against infantry but doesn't offer the range or strength of plasma/melta... and I think I should be more focused with ranged... shoot them/whittle them down in order to try to avoid getting into assaults. In fact, I've come to the mentality that if the units get mired in assault, I should just consider them lost...PWs would be points wasted.

Even with the list now, I'm still looking at trouble against hordes.

The three plasmagun squads might help a little bit against hordes...and I can throw some fire from the meltagun squads and Stormtalons as well (but then they wouldn't be doing their tank/flyer hunting)... but I don't think it would be enough. I can get swamped if the other player brings enough foot soldiers. Once I get into assault, even if I get the charge, I wouldn't have enough attacks.