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I've always used them as single koptas with TL Rokkits, but I was wondering if anyone has used them differently in 6th edition more effectively(not to say that single koptas aren't effective). I prefer warbuggies with TL Rokkits, but buying 9 seems daunting and the ones I have are crudely-constructed proxies made out of foamcore and bottlecaps. I already have like 12 AoBR koptas.

With 6th edition, don't forget Linebreaker. Having a single Deffkopta get you an extra victory point at the very end of the game by turbo-boosting it's way into the enemy's deployment is super annoying. Deffkoptas shouldn't be used for anything other than harrying/early game tarpitting. They become way too expensive if you give them any upgrades at all, and I ain't willing to make a single jetbike 60pts for another Power Klaw. We're Orks. :I The cheaper and more blob-like the better, unless the model is really worth it. If I'm feeling particularly feisty, Bigbomms can be entertaining as a contingent for said early game harrying, although we don't get to turbo-boost 24" and drop the bomm any longer.

I can assure you that your crudely constructed proxies are both prettier, and more Orky than the official GW model. If you so desire, you may try mounting wheels on a few of those Deffkoptas. I've seen some real easy and effective conversions done that way.

Loosing the assault from outflank and scout loses half their value. Then lack of turbo boost on scout move and then save from turbo boost isn't great.

At the moment jets are probably better. Rocket buggies were good in mech lists they just feel a little light on hullpoints and cover saves.

Maybe try a warbiker warboss with deffkoptas. He'll give them the bosspole, LoS for wound allocation, then they'll give him scout/outflank and some rockets. This will be a little expensive but so be it.

MFletch wrote:Loosing the assault from outflank and scout loses half their value.

I love to loose an assault from outflank. Are we still allowed to loose assaults on the first turn in from reserves?

Are they not still worth it just for outflanking then shooting the back of vehicles with their twin linked rokkits?

Without the buzzsaw they are only 45 points after all, make 3 squads of one, and they can go on the back penning tanks like no tomorrow. No?

DrDuckman wrote:Are they not still worth it just for outflanking then shooting the back of vehicles with their twin linked rokkits?

Without the buzzsaw they are only 45 points after all, make 3 squads of one, and they can go on the back penning tanks like no tomorrow. No?

I wouldn't pin my anti-vehicle hopes on three single-unit jetbikes with TL-Rokkit Launchas. Chances are they're not going to do a whole lot the rest of your army can't do already from the front. If you have one unit of five with TL-Rokkit Launchas, backed up by two Dakkajets/Burna Bommas, I think that's a strong Fast Attack presence. Especially if you go for Warlord traits that affect reserves, that entire column becomes more useful to you.

Dakka Jets just seem to do more damage and are a bit mire survivable than a few Koptas these days.

Dakkajets have risen to the top of the fast attack slot.

Although I'm toying with taking a flier, I like to make sure I've got at least 1 kopta.

I like to kit them with twin-linked rokkit launchas and run them in squads of 2 or 3, though I have done solo koptas to great effect.

NEVER give them rokkits and buzzsaws. 70 points is very price for that.

Outflanking can work effectively, but so can an alpha-strike.

I prefer to just run a squad of 3 Koptas with regular TL Big Shootas. No point in running Rokkits IMO, just spends more points for 1 shot. On the other hand, TL Big Shootas gives you 9 rerollable shots, as opposed to 3. I personally would prefer a higher volume of fire power and let the Lootas take out tanks and fliers. That's my Ork philosophy-if you throw enough shots at something, eventually its gonna start getting hurt. Koptas are just part of that. Add in that they can potentially be a scoring and denial unit and its a nice piece for 35 pts, especially with Toughness 5 and 2 Wounds.

A dakkajet brings the same amount of shots at a higher BS and strength though, while only costing 15 points more.

Yeah, but maybe you don't have those 15 pts? Plus fliers have to move in sweeps, right? Like they have to move at least 18 inches? If so, then you can't rely on it to be in the right place to possibly hold, contest or deny an objective, whereas you an with Koptas.

Plus...they're Ork helicopters. That's a great reason alone to use them I think.

If you don't have those 15 points you should go find them

No, seriously, I simply don't think that a twin-linked big shoota is worth 35 points when you can get get them practically anywhere cheaper. They usually stay alive that long because they are mostly harmless. I would be bothered wasting 105 points on a unit that isn't a threat at all.

OK, well think about it. Where else can you get them?

Battlewagons can equip them but that's minimum 90 pts + 10 and not TL.

Boyz can take them but they need minimum 10 for 1, which is 60 pts, and that's not TL.

Burnas and Lootas can also take them but that requires paying points to buy the unit, convert it to the less useful Mek and then paying to get the Big Shoota, and its not TL.

Kommandos can take them but that requires minimum 50 pts for the base unit, paying more for the Big Shoota, its not TL, and Kommandos have become less useful in 6th.

Kans can take them but they're not TL either and slightly more expensive and not TL, plus they're slower.

Dreadnoughts cost over 2 Koptas and aren't TL.

Looted Wagons can have them but again, slightly more expensive and not TL.

Trukks automatically get a Big Shoota but its not TL.

Buggies are the only one that comes close, as they're cheaper. However, they are vulnerable to small arms fire since Str 4 can glance them and kill pretty quickly, since they have few hull points. At least the Koptas can get a cover and armor save. Once those 6s hit a Buggy, its going down quickly.

I dunno, I think they seem pretty good. Orks need to hit as much as they can from range and having TL shots greatly increases the chances of those 1s and 2s becoming 5+.

twin dakkajets and a single kopta thats the way to go

MFletch wrote:Loosing the assault from outflank and scout loses half their value. Then lack of turbo boost on scout move and then save from turbo boost isn't great.

At the moment jets are probably better. Rocket buggies were good in mech lists they just feel a little light on hullpoints and cover saves.

Maybe try a warbiker warboss with deffkoptas. He'll give them the bosspole, LoS for wound allocation, then they'll give him scout/outflank and some rockets. This will be a little expensive but so be it.

Well, a Warboss on bike with some Deffkoptas is an interesting option. Viable?

wuestenfux wrote:

MFletch wrote:Loosing the assault from outflank and scout loses half their value. Then lack of turbo boost on scout move and then save from turbo boost isn't great.

At the moment jets are probably better. Rocket buggies were good in mech lists they just feel a little light on hullpoints and cover saves.

Maybe try a warbiker warboss with deffkoptas. He'll give them the bosspole, LoS for wound allocation, then they'll give him scout/outflank and some rockets. This will be a little expensive but so be it.

Well, a Warboss on bike with some Deffkoptas is an interesting option. Viable?

Quite possible actually the deffkoptas are T5 W2 thats a lot of meat shields between.your boss and the enemy. The boss is going to cut through anything you charge at plus give a few koptas a buzzsaw and you have quite a potent CC force along with a barrage of rokkits big shootas or if your faceing termies KMB's

Crimson-King2120 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

MFletch wrote:Loosing the assault from outflank and scout loses half their value. Then lack of turbo boost on scout move and then save from turbo boost isn't great.

At the moment jets are probably better. Rocket buggies were good in mech lists they just feel a little light on hullpoints and cover saves.

Maybe try a warbiker warboss with deffkoptas. He'll give them the bosspole, LoS for wound allocation, then they'll give him scout/outflank and some rockets. This will be a little expensive but so be it.

Well, a Warboss on bike with some Deffkoptas is an interesting option. Viable?

Quite possible actually the deffkoptas are T5 W2 thats a lot of meat shields between.your boss and the enemy. The boss is going to cut through anything you charge at plus give a few koptas a buzzsaw and you have quite a potent CC force along with a barrage of rokkits big shootas or if your faceing termies KMB's

In fact, it is a potent unit. But is it a contender of a Nob Biker squad? I'm toying with such a unit as allies. But I don't want to hijack this thread. Go ahead.

it is however deffkoptas will be cheaper


Automatically Appended Next Post:
however the koptas cant pull off the look out sir shennanigans

Crimson-King2120 wrote:it is however deffkoptas will be cheaper


Automatically Appended Next Post:
however the koptas cant pull off the look out sir shennanigans

In fact, look-out-sir is a nice rule for multi-wound models as it allows to direct hits to models that have not yet been wounded.

KOBossy wrote:OK, well think about it. Where else can you get them?

Battlewagons can equip them but that's minimum 90 pts + 10 and not TL.

Boyz can take them but they need minimum 10 for 1, which is 60 pts, and that's not TL.

Burnas and Lootas can also take them but that requires paying points to buy the unit, convert it to the less useful Mek and then paying to get the Big Shoota, and its not TL.

Kommandos can take them but that requires minimum 50 pts for the base unit, paying more for the Big Shoota, its not TL, and Kommandos have become less useful in 6th.

Kans can take them but they're not TL either and slightly more expensive and not TL, plus they're slower.

Dreadnoughts cost over 2 Koptas and aren't TL.

Looted Wagons can have them but again, slightly more expensive and not TL.

Trukks automatically get a Big Shoota but its not TL.

Buggies are the only one that comes close, as they're cheaper. However, they are vulnerable to small arms fire since Str 4 can glance them and kill pretty quickly, since they have few hull points. At least the Koptas can get a cover and armor save. Once those 6s hit a Buggy, its going down quickly.

I dunno, I think they seem pretty good. Orks need to hit as much as they can from range and having TL shots greatly increases the chances of those 1s and 2s becoming 5+.

Point is, you don't buy a unit to get big shootaz. You already have a batllewagon, a unit of boyz, or a dread. You then spend 10 points for two big shootaz, which are better than a TL shoota. Besides, all those units you named have a secondary function which is dangerous enough all by itself to make your opponent shoot them. Koptaz and only shoot their gun and maybe contest at the end of the game. You are basically paying 25 points for something worthless - the kopta itself. 75 points of lootaz, burnaz, boyz, kanz, trukks or even looted wagons are way more useful than three 'ard boyz with two wounds.

they compete with warbuggies which got stonger... i curetently at 1850 run 2 dakkajets and 3 rokkit buggies. my rokkit buggies are just the dekkkoptas with beer bottle caps for wheels which i have been told looks pretty orky like little cogs for wheels to help traction . with the new vehicle squad rules immobalize isn't as bad weither leave behind a stationary rokkit platform that doesn't award a kill point and the enemy then has to worry abotu firing at later

With only two hull points buggies took a big hit I think. Jets are the new shiny and rokkits with 2 wounds may still perform better

mrwhoop wrote:With only two hull points buggies took a big hit I think. Jets are the new shiny and rokkits with 2 wounds may still perform better

i still think deff koptas vs buggies is personal prefrence

2 hull points per buggeie but 3 rokkit buggies for 105 points... that is 6 hull points ... a sinlge deffkopta w/ buzzsaw and tl rokkits is 70 points, add in a 2nd to the unit to ride up front with just a rokkit for 45 points so 10 points more and it is 4 wounds at toughness 5 which is awsome as they don't instant death to str 8 with is the bees knees... but most troops have str 4 weapons so the glance a buggie on 6's or injure a biker on 5's. the deffkoptas want to be assaulting but the rokkits usually keep out of rapid fire range. its to close to call on what is better really but i prefer me my buggies.

plus i did have a game where one got hit by a missile and immobalized so next turn due to new vehicle squadron rules he sat there shooting a tl missile launcher every turn that followed because my opponent didn't want to bother shooting at one lone buggy

I have found the improvement in squadron rules has balanced the hull points.
The issue is that the have lost a 4+ cover.

Rocket buggies are dirt cheap and take some of the pressure off trukks, at the very least. The question is are trukks viable.

Fast slots are under a lot of pressure, you have to be careful how you use them.

Don't underestimate the Biker Boss and 5 big shoota deffkopta combo. You get 5 T5, 2 wound models with 43+ armour and a 5+ jink cover save to protect the boss. The big shootas work well with the boss's dakkaguns and are cheaper than rokkits. On top of that they give your boss Scout, Outflank and Hit and Run. The boss gives them a boss pole and CC power.

The Hit and Run makes for a really interesting tactical unit that will be fun to play. You can:
- choose when to end combat (so you can make sure you end CC in your opponents assault phase so you don't get shot at the next turn)
- bait a unit into combat out in the open and leave them stranded at the end of their assualt phase so they can get shot to pieces next turn.
- gain additional movement by baiting a unit to charge you then pulling out and moving past them towards and objective/juicier unit

I am thinking of running them as a Biker boss with boss pole, PK, cybork and attack squig with 5 big shoota koptas, or drop the squig and give one kopta a buzzsaw.

MFletch wrote:

Rocket buggies are dirt cheap and take some of the pressure off trukks, at the very least. The question is are trukks viable.

Not to derail my own thread, but I played a Burnawagon list that had 2 Battlewagons with shoota boyz and filled out the rest of the troop slots with slugga boyz in trukks. I planned on using them as counter-charge units/objective grabbers. I got screwed over by some bad luck but I'd like to test this out a few more times. I don't know about a straight-up trukk list though.